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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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36,201 posts in this topic

No, i agree with you. The only problem i had was bababooey acting like you cant even mention a problem on here until after 30 unless you are a OCD i d i ot. I've got no problem with what walls did and said even though it hadnt been 30 days. If someone wants to come in here and say "its been 20 some days and i havent heard a single thing, once it hits 30 days what do i do?" which is basically what he did.

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I think 30 days is fine to finish negotiating for the sale of the item, but to be honest with you, IMHO, once money has changed hands, I think 30 days is a long time to wait, unless agreed upon by the buyer and seller, before expecting your item. I would suggest maybe half of that time frame to at least expect it to be in the mail with some type of delivery confirmation number. If a seller waits until day 30 and then sends something media mail or international shipping, I imagine you could be on the outside of your limit for posting a claim depending on how you've paypaled. Also, in a couple of instances I've had the seller request a personal payment through paypal and I believe that removes all protection we have as a buyer. In that case, I think the sale needs to be taken even more seriously. Does it need to be completed in 5 days? No, but I don't really see asking for a confirmation number to be provided in two weeks to be all that super demanding unless you have some time management challenges...

 

How are the rules decided by the community? Is it put to a vote for as many people as possible to ring in or is this a select group of illuminati-like individuals putting these rules in place? I've read through the last 6 months of this thread and it seems like the same 20 or 25 folks posting over and over. I think there is close to 18k folks on this board. How would one go about making a suggestion? Are buyers and sellers fairly represented? It seems like alot of the discussion I've seen focuses on protecting the seller and the buyer can just suck it. Despite the fact that the seller doesn't actually ship until they receive money. I know I've dropped 1k to 1.5k a couple of times and in those cases I do expect awesome communication and in these purchases I've received it. After the initial purchase, I'll be much more comfortable dealing with you and won't be as paranoid but up until that point I would like to see the items shipped in a reasonable time. Also, keep in mind that some of us are relatively new and don't know who has street cred and who doesn't. Having some guy like bababooey come out and tell folks who have spent maybe significant amounts of money to STFU is stupid.

 

In relation to my original issue, I do have some movement now. Thanks so much for those folks who actually helped. Also keep in mind that I never outed the seller and my questions were process related.

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I would suggest maybe half of that time frame to at least expect it to be in the mail with some type of delivery confirmation number.

 

I agree, and said it earlier in this thread.

 

Confirmation Number

 

Why not nip the problem in the bud?

 

If the buyer has paid and has not received a shipment confirmation number in X days (I'm thinking 7-10 days max), then there's a problem and it should be dealt with.

 

Why focus on item arrival date, when this adds the extra variable of delivery method, not to mention the extra time the buyer waits before knowing something is wrong.

 

Again, I wasn't here when the rule was created, so maybe this is what the majority wants, but it seems like the metric is in the wrong place.

 

PS - I don't think it's just buyer apprehension with an unknown seller, OCD, etc. Some buyers want to receive what they purchase in a reasonable amount of time, regardless of how trustworthy the seller.

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I know there have been a number of discussions regarding process for the buy/sell area of the boards (I remember at the very least being involved in the most recent iteration of the probation thread rules and the development of the kudos threads...it used to be one long thread instead of personalized ones).

 

Anyway, it seems that change generally happens by majority consensus of those that participate in the discussions (although when rules are being modified there is usually cross posting in comics general to alert folks to the discussion).

 

As for how to change them (in the area of probation at least) this is the place. If you have any good ideas throw them out there :foryou: I would suggest, however, that you offer some good arguements for the changes (some folks just complain that things need to be changed but fail to offer alternatives that are feasible). Keep in mind that the discussions are limited somewhat (you mentioned 18,000 members) as a large number of registered users do not post at all, and many who do are not active buyers/sellers here (thus the smaller group repeatedly posting in these areas).

 

I for one, am a fan of the 30 days and do not see a need for it to change. However, I then tend to fall on the punitive end of laying the hammer on PL/HoS folks (especially repeat offenders). So some of the things I look for in gaurding the community I see in the current rules, others I would change. There are many points of view though and presently I think the current rules reflect a pretty wide consensus amongst the active buyers/sellers (protecting both in my opinion...and even though Norris Fest occasionally happens, I am primarily a buyer here).

 

 

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This has nothing to do with anything... BUT...

 

Shellhead... I love your sig line :)

 

Everytime I see it I just get drawn in and watch it. :)

 

+1

 

Especially when the girl second from the left pops out and looks at the other end of the line up.

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Also keep in mind that I never outed the seller and my questions were process related.
If you had taken more care in hiding the seller's ID then I wouldn't have posted what I did - it took 10 seconds to find your :takeit: post in the thread, how do you think I knew to advise you the international transit time, how did I know Sufunk bought in the same thread?

 

I'll clarify my points:

- General discussions about customer service expectations are fine even when they exceed community standards.

- General discussions about what is or is not an "acceptable life changing" event to warrant delay of books is also fine.

 

HOWEVER once you discuss either one where it can be related back to a specific board member then I don't think it's fair in the former or wise in the latter since you never know what the circumstances might be. I'd suggest a better effort in hiding someone's identity if you want to just ask questions or engage in general discussions.

 

I'm glad you got some follow up communication from the seller (10-14 business days like I said) and if you truly felt you didn't "out" the seller here then I apologize for adding the STFU graemlin thing.

 

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Ignore the intestine induced strikethrough text!

Edited by Povertyrow
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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Thanks POV.

 

I'm a team player, so whatever the majority agrees to is fine with me. I just wanted to point out a potential process flow improvement since it seems like there have been recurring problems in this area.

 

I would imagine that coming up with any consensus is a bit like herding cats, so I apologize if this came across like stirring the pot.

 

Lastly, I thought this was the "Probation Discussions Thread"?

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Thanks POV.

 

I'm a team player, so whatever the majority agrees to is fine with me. I just wanted to point out a potential process flow improvement since it seems like there have been recurring problems in this area.

 

I would imagine that coming up with any consensus is a bit like herding cats, so I apologize if this came across like stirring the pot.

 

Lastly, I thought this was the "Probation Discussions Thread"?

 

:blush: This IS the right thread. Forgive me. I have been abed the past week with an intestinal infection and my brain ain't working on all 3 cylinders. I shall edit my post to add further shame. :hi:

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

...

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Is this thread title better? It seems to change every so often. I look for it as being the "DISCUSSION" thread, thus I put that back into the title. :angel:

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Thanks POV.

 

I'm a team player, so whatever the majority agrees to is fine with me. I just wanted to point out a potential process flow improvement since it seems like there have been recurring problems in this area.

 

I would imagine that coming up with any consensus is a bit like herding cats, so I apologize if this came across like stirring the pot.

 

Lastly, I thought this was the "Probation Discussions Thread"?

 

:blush: This IS the right thread. Forgive me. I have been abed the past week with an intestinal infection and my brain ain't working on all 3 cylinders. I shall edit my post to add further shame. :hi:

 

:D I noticed the subject line had been changed to "PROBATION THREAD - for forum sales problems" so I thought maybe it had been moved somewhere else. But then I couldn't find it.

 

Get well soon! bestwishes.gif

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No, i agree with you. The only problem i had was bababooey acting like you cant even mention a problem on here until after 30 unless you are a OCD i d i ot. I've got no problem with what walls did and said even though it hadnt been 30 days. If someone wants to come in here and say "its been 20 some days and i havent heard a single thing, once it hits 30 days what do i do?" which is basically what he did.

 

.....I still wanted it and I promptly paypaled money on 4/12/2012 and the seller responds stating that he'll get back to me with tracking/carrier information. I don't hear back from the seller for about a week. I PM the seller on 4/20/2012 asking if he's had a chance to get the item in the mail. He responds on 4/20/2012 saying no but he'll get it in the mail shortly, I don't hear back that he's put it in the mail so I wait another week and PM again 4 days ago on 4/28/2012. I've had no response at this point but I don't see that the message has been read. So maybe the seller has just been really busy. (shrug)

 

So it's now been just under 30 days....

Regardless, all i said and meant is that you need to communicate with the other party no matter whats going on unless you are incapacitated. Both of these last posters had sent PM's that went unread or unanswered for weeks on end. Thats just not acceptable 99% of the time. It takes 30 seconds to respond to a pm. That just shouldnt happen imo (shrug)

I agree that communication is important but so is accuracy, you are confusing the time lines.

 

Walls had a PM unread for 4 days when he posted in this thread & the seller hadn't posted at all on the boards for a week. Walls was aware that his book was coming from Canada (10-14 business days transit time); he also knew they were delayed & had NOT been shipped on the 20th - he came here to discuss it only 7 business days after the last communication.

 

2c If communication is so important then adjusting your own expectations in accordance with any discussions that take place also has some importance.

 

I guess all of your communication advice in this thread is only applicable to one of the two sellers.

:popcorn:

 

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Also keep in mind that I never outed the seller and my questions were process related.
If you had taken more care in hiding the seller's ID then I wouldn't have posted what I did - it took 10 seconds to find your :takeit: post in the thread, how do you think I knew to advise you the international transit time, how did I know Sufunk bought in the same thread?

 

I'll clarify my points:

- General discussions about customer service expectations are fine even when they exceed community standards.

- General discussions about what is or is not an "acceptable life changing" event to warrant delay of books is also fine.

 

HOWEVER once you discuss either one where it can be related back to a specific board member then I don't think it's fair in the former or wise in the latter since you never know what the circumstances might be. I'd suggest a better effort in hiding someone's identity if you want to just ask questions or engage in general discussions.

 

I'm glad you got some follow up communication from the seller (10-14 business days like I said) and if you truly felt you didn't "out" the seller here then I apologize for adding the STFU graemlin thing.

 

It never occurred to me that someone would go and dig the information out of the posting history. I certainly never intended to out the seller, you figured that out all on your own. But now that you've brought posting history, I've reviewed your posting history as well and IMHO I wonder what makes you qualified to define/enforce buyer/seller interaction rules (other then hanging out on the board and talking alot). I don't see that you sell books, it looks like mostly you buy $5-$30 books. So unless you're doing a lot of PM purchasing, from what I can see your largest purchase is around $160 dollars.

 

:eyeroll:

 

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that and I'm not a big book buyer either, I'm sure my $400 to $1500 dollar transactions cause some of the folks on here to roll their eyes as well but IMHO if you're going to call someone who's spending thousands of dollars on the board an idi0t and tell them to STFU because they have some concerns about a first time transaction with a given seller, at the very least make sure you're in the same situation.

 

2c

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Thanks POV.

 

I'm a team player, so whatever the majority agrees to is fine with me. I just wanted to point out a potential process flow improvement since it seems like there have been recurring problems in this area.

 

I would imagine that coming up with any consensus is a bit like herding cats, so I apologize if this came across like stirring the pot.

 

Lastly, I thought this was the "Probation Discussions Thread"?

 

:blush: This IS the right thread. Forgive me. I have been abed the past week with an intestinal infection and my brain ain't working on all 3 cylinders. I shall edit my post to add further shame. :hi:

 

:D I noticed the subject line had been changed to "PROBATION THREAD - for forum sales problems" so I thought maybe it had been moved somewhere else. But then I couldn't find it.

 

Get well soon! bestwishes.gif

 

I had noticed that in the past but it still throws me sometimes.

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Thanks POV.

 

I'm a team player, so whatever the majority agrees to is fine with me. I just wanted to point out a potential process flow improvement since it seems like there have been recurring problems in this area.

 

I would imagine that coming up with any consensus is a bit like herding cats, so I apologize if this came across like stirring the pot.

 

Lastly, I thought this was the "Probation Discussions Thread"?

 

Back in 2011 I was still becoming acquainted with the board and I don't think I was purchasing until late in the year. Most of my major purchases have been over the last 6 months I guess.

 

I certainly don't want to upset the entire process and I seriously doubt that I could even if I wanted to. I'm just saying that IMHO 30 days after real dollars has changed hands (not just a :takeit: and no pay) is a long time to wait for at least a confirmation code from the PO.

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if you're going to call someone who's spending thousands of dollars on the board an idi0t and tell them to STFU because they have some concerns about a first time transaction with a given seller, at the very least make sure you're in the same situation.

 

Please keep me posted on how this works out for you.

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Walls I agree with you and think you handled it appropriately. Sounds like everything is going to work out for you, but there were plenty of warning flags justifying your concern:

 

- Not replying to your Take It in timely fashion

- Telling you the item was on hold (not publicly posted) but then next day saying it's yours

- Telling you he'd send a tracking #, but not hearing after a week

- Seller says item not mailed (a week after payment) and it will go out "shortly" (vague)

- No word from the seller 10 days after the last communication

 

Taken separately those are each pretty innocent. As a group, it's reasonable to be concerned esp. since you'd never done business with him before.

 

You posted here with a question and asked for opinions. You didn't flame the guy or whine about how long it took. I say you did everything right I hope it works out.

 

:thumbsup:

 

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Walls and Shellhead, while you both were fairly new here you both were members when the PL rules got heavily discussed and voted on. This occurred in July 2011.

 

The discussion took place in the PROBATION DISCUSSIONS thread (which is where these kinds of discussions should be taken. This thread is to actually to discuss specific nominations to the PL).

 

There was an announcement in July posted in Comics General as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=4932984&Searchpage=2&Main=228687&Words=%2Bpoll+%2Bprobation&topic=0&Search=true#Post4932984

 

Thanks POV.

 

I'm a team player, so whatever the majority agrees to is fine with me. I just wanted to point out a potential process flow improvement since it seems like there have been recurring problems in this area.

 

I would imagine that coming up with any consensus is a bit like herding cats, so I apologize if this came across like stirring the pot.

 

Lastly, I thought this was the "Probation Discussions Thread"?

 

Back in 2011 I was still becoming acquainted with the board and I don't think I was purchasing until late in the year. Most of my major purchases have been over the last 6 months I guess.

 

I certainly don't want to upset the entire process and I seriously doubt that I could even if I wanted to. I'm just saying that IMHO 30 days after real dollars has changed hands (not just a :takeit: and no pay) is a long time to wait for at least a confirmation code from the PO.

 

I can see where you are coming from, but you have to remember that that the rules are meant to cover all sales on the boards. That includes items sent without delivery confirmation, media mail, international sales, or otherwise where there is no tracking information to be sent. I guess my suggestion might be to PM the seller if quick shipping is essential.

 

i.e. a message along the lines of

 

Snake Eyes,

 

I want to place a conditional :takeit: if you can ship within three days (or a week...essentially whatever you are looking for)

 

Thanks for your time,

Walls

 

Pretty simple to do and that way the seller can determine if that is an acceptable concession. Unfortunately, that does put you out of the running on feeding frenzy threads where quick :takeit: is needed to grab a book (i.e. Foolkiller, CD4ever, Bio-Rupp, etc.) I think you will also find that in those larger threads shipping time does tend to lag a little as it can quickly get overwhelming to sort out all of the buyers and package multiple boxes.

 

Anyway, just my two cents as the defender of the status quo :insane:

Edited by Snake Eyes
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