fantastic_fourfantastic_four Just far far too long without a custom title. Really. Seriously now. 2002?
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Posts: 20146
Loc: Virginia by day, Asgard by nig...
Originally Posted By: comicwiz
Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
Originally Posted By: stippy52
And there lies the problem. That's top-secret information.
It's not secret, it's just that CGC doesn't assign sub-grades. I agree that it's a better way to grade though, been saying that here for over a decade.
I don't think it's that bad an idea. I've had CGC graders voluntarily provide that information when calling in for notes in the past. If people are paying for them now, I'd expect that the 3 grades that were used to arrive at a finalized one would be part of the fee-based "graders notes" package.
Stippy wasn't talking about the sub-grades that the different graders assign, he was talking about a single grader assigning grades to various categories that combine together into a single overall grade--that's what I agree we should all do when grading. CGC doesn't do that.
I presume they don't give out the individual graders' grades because they think it will beg the unrealistic question of "why aren't your standards well-defined enough so that your graders all arrive at the same grades?"
Brian48Brian48
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up
Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: People's Republic of Boston, M...
I don't think CGC is expecting to make any real money on this. They just don't want you calling and tying up their CSR line with these requests all the time. Some of our clients have us do this for some of their services to discurage certain behaviors. Not saying I agree with it, but I can see it from their side.
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. . . . . Yeah, I sort of like early Bronze Age Bats, raw or slabbed. I don't discriminate.
These guys aren't too bad either. Missing just two.
Just called CGC to check on grader notes for a comic I'm thinking about. He put me on hold for a min and then told me as of today you can get the notes on CGC site by entering the cert #.
Logged into CGC site, entered cert # than was informed that if I wanted grader notes it would be $15 and billed to my account.
Econ, value and modern $5 Standard or Express $15 Walkthrough $30
This makes me mad. I paid over $100 to get something graded and when it was resubbed I paid another $100 to get the grade it deserved. Now I have to pay $15 to determine this? That is pretty awful. Yeah, it's great to have the notes published (finally) but it was only a matter of time before CGC had to do something to support the grades they put on the books. TO have to pay an additiona sum to get this information seems very petty to me.
I don't see how it is petty. If you pay for a service with a defined outcome (a graded and slabbed comic) are you necessarily entitled to all of the work product that goes into providing it?
YES, because they do not offer a grading guideline or transparent explanation of how they grade and when your book looks 1-2 grades far better or worse than the grade they have assigned, at the very least they owe you the notes showing what defects they used (perhaps some hidden) to arrive at that grade, especially for future buyers that never held the book in their hands! At the very least, these notes should be sent along with the books to the original customer who paid those incredibly high CGC fees to begin with! My theory is they are just too busy and just want to drive away customers and make more doing it so they can improve their turn times!
Marty MannMarty Mann
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up
Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1153
Loc: Way in the past.
All I wanted to know is why my books received such low grades. thinking there might have been some sort of mix-up...and was told "...there is no room for such errors.".
mm
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I think I have the oldest, original owner GA collection on the boards. Marty Mann's "Park Avenue Collection" (32 graded so far)
Just called CGC to check on grader notes for a comic I'm thinking about. He put me on hold for a min and then told me as of today you can get the notes on CGC site by entering the cert #.
Logged into CGC site, entered cert # than was informed that if I wanted grader notes it would be $15 and billed to my account.
Econ, value and modern $5 Standard or Express $15 Walkthrough $30
This makes me mad. I paid over $100 to get something graded and when it was resubbed I paid another $100 to get the grade it deserved. Now I have to pay $15 to determine this? That is pretty awful. Yeah, it's great to have the notes published (finally) but it was only a matter of time before CGC had to do something to support the grades they put on the books. TO have to pay an additiona sum to get this information seems very petty to me.
I don't see how it is petty. If you pay for a service with a defined outcome (a graded and slabbed comic) are you necessarily entitled to all of the work product that goes into providing it?
YES, because they do not offer a grading guideline or transparent explanation of how they grade and when your book looks 1-2 grades far better or worse than the grade they have assigned, at the very least they owe you the notes showing what defects they used (perhaps some hidden) to arrive at that grade, especially for future buyers that never held the book in their hands! At the very least, these notes should be sent along with the books to the original customer who paid those incredibly high CGC fees to begin with! My theory is they are just too busy and just want to drive away customers and make more doing it so they can improve their turn times!
No.
They have contracted to provide you with a plastic case and a Big Number and have guaranteed that three people will look at your book. If they do that, they have fulfilled the contract and they owe you nothing else.
If you want more than they contracted with you to provide, they are entitled to ask for additional payment.
Oh, wait a minute...
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Just called CGC to check on grader notes for a comic I'm thinking about. He put me on hold for a min and then told me as of today you can get the notes on CGC site by entering the cert #.
Logged into CGC site, entered cert # than was informed that if I wanted grader notes it would be $15 and billed to my account.
Econ, value and modern $5 Standard or Express $15 Walkthrough $30
This makes me mad. I paid over $100 to get something graded and when it was resubbed I paid another $100 to get the grade it deserved. Now I have to pay $15 to determine this? That is pretty awful. Yeah, it's great to have the notes published (finally) but it was only a matter of time before CGC had to do something to support the grades they put on the books. TO have to pay an additiona sum to get this information seems very petty to me.
I don't see how it is petty. If you pay for a service with a defined outcome (a graded and slabbed comic) are you necessarily entitled to all of the work product that goes into providing it?
YES, because they do not offer a grading guideline or transparent explanation of how they grade and when your book looks 1-2 grades far better or worse than the grade they have assigned, at the very least they owe you the notes showing what defects they used (perhaps some hidden) to arrive at that grade, especially for future buyers that never held the book in their hands! At the very least, these notes should be sent along with the books to the original customer who paid those incredibly high CGC fees to begin with! My theory is they are just too busy and just want to drive away customers and make more doing it so they can improve their turn times!
If a home inspector missed a leak in the foundation, and the miss leads to water damaged contents months after the resale of the home, I seriously doubt the home inspector would get off easily.
The fact that CGC grades a comic and is allowed to do so with undisclosed defects like rusting staples is no different.
Same lousy work by the home inspector shouldn't give CGC a pass on providing a half-*spoon* assessment of submitters comics.
Worse of course are the optics of a home inspector calling you post inspection asking you to pay for his full notes on the inspection, which include undisclosed deffects of the home like leaky foundations, errors in wiring, etc.
It's this analogy which makes what CGC is doing here wrong on so many levels.
Forgive me if I misunderstand what "we" are actually paying CGC for. But are we not paying for a restoration check, encapsulation and an "opinion" of the books grade? Wouldn't paying for an opinion of a books grade, include the notations concerning said grade?
If not, then why note what type of restoration a book has. Just state it has "restoration", and demand more money from us, to know what the restoration is.
Just called CGC to check on grader notes for a comic I'm thinking about. He put me on hold for a min and then told me as of today you can get the notes on CGC site by entering the cert #.
Logged into CGC site, entered cert # than was informed that if I wanted grader notes it would be $15 and billed to my account.
Econ, value and modern $5 Standard or Express $15 Walkthrough $30
This makes me mad. I paid over $100 to get something graded and when it was resubbed I paid another $100 to get the grade it deserved. Now I have to pay $15 to determine this? That is pretty awful. Yeah, it's great to have the notes published (finally) but it was only a matter of time before CGC had to do something to support the grades they put on the books. TO have to pay an additiona sum to get this information seems very petty to me.
I don't see how it is petty. If you pay for a service with a defined outcome (a graded and slabbed comic) are you necessarily entitled to all of the work product that goes into providing it?
YES, because they do not offer a grading guideline or transparent explanation of how they grade and when your book looks 1-2 grades far better or worse than the grade they have assigned, at the very least they owe you the notes showing what defects they used (perhaps some hidden) to arrive at that grade, especially for future buyers that never held the book in their hands! At the very least, these notes should be sent along with the books to the original customer who paid those incredibly high CGC fees to begin with! My theory is they are just too busy and just want to drive away customers and make more doing it so they can improve their turn times!
If a home inspector missed a leak in the foundation, and the miss leads to water damaged contents months after the resale of the home, I seriously doubt the home inspector would get off easily.
The fact that CGC grades a comic and is allowed to do so with undisclosed defects like rusting staples is no different.
Same lousy work by the home inspector shouldn't give CGC a pass on providing a half-*spoon* assessment of submitters comics.
Worse of course are the optics of a home inspector calling you post inspection asking you to pay for his full notes on the inspection, which include undisclosed deffects of the home like leaky foundations, errors in wiring, etc.
It's this analogy which makes what CGC is doing here wrong on so many levels.
But you're talking about what happens if they get the grade wrong.
Not how they arrive at the grade.
I'll repeat...you pay for three people to examine the book, a plastic holder and a Big Number.
They do that, they have fulfilled the contract.
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TransplantTransplant WARNING!!! This member is passive aggressive. Please beware of sharp fingernails.
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Originally Posted By: Flaming_Telepath
They have contracted to provide you with a plastic case and a Big Number and have guaranteed that three people will look at your book.
Originally Posted By: Flaming_Telepath
I'll repeat...you pay for three people to examine the book, a plastic holder and a Big Number.
They do that, they have fulfilled the contract.
Originally Posted By: CGC FAQs
Does CGC offer a grading guarantee?
Due to the fragile nature of comic books, CGC does not offer a grading guarantee. However, CGC does offer the following guarantee: a) CGC guarantees that two or more comic professionals will review every comic book submitted for grading. b) CGC guarantees its holder to be free of defects. Defective holders will be replaced at no charge, except when it is determined (at CGC's sole discretion) that the holder was subjected to abuse, or if damage is the result of storage in a hazardous environment. c) CGC guarantees that all books it certifies are authentic, as described on the CGC grading label.
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"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski
GACollectibles: It seems very....passive aggressive. DrWatson: I have known him several years and I can say with some absurdness that there isn't anything passive about him.
Passive Aggressive spite posting like a B0$$, since 2007.
