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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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36,201 posts in this topic

I never like the excuse that a seller is too busy with their life to complete a timely transaction. If you're too busy to complete transactions, why have a sale in the first place? (shrug)

 

Not making excuses for anyone, but there has to be some leeway here. Death in the family, loss of job, divorce, car wreck etc.

 

But barring a life changing event, I'd say 30 days is plenty of time to complete a transaction.

 

I thought that would be assumed (shrug) BUT, to be 100% honest I would still hope at the very least if at all possible to receive a quick note letting me know it will be delayed.

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I never like the excuse that a seller is too busy with their life to complete a timely transaction. If you're too busy to complete transactions, why have a sale in the first place? (shrug)

 

Not making excuses for anyone, but there has to be some leeway here. Death in the family, loss of job, divorce, car wreck etc.

 

But barring a life changing event, I'd say 30 days is plenty of time to complete a transaction.

You are right that those are valid reasons. I just do not get how he can be too busy if that is what the excuse is and he has continued to post here on the boards (10 times or so today).

 

Very much agreed. The flashing envelope isn't that hard to miss.

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I never like the excuse that a seller is too busy with their life to complete a timely transaction. If you're too busy to complete transactions, why have a sale in the first place? (shrug)

 

Not making excuses for anyone, but there has to be some leeway here. Death in the family, loss of job, divorce, car wreck etc.

 

But barring a life changing event, I'd say 30 days is plenty of time to complete a transaction.

 

I thought that would be assumed (shrug) BUT, to be 100% honest I would still hope at the very least if at all possible to receive a quick note letting me know it will be delayed.

 

I've found that when dealing with anyone over the internet that you can't assume anything :grin:

 

Concerning other post... I agree... that flashing mailbox is very hard to miss :)

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I never like the excuse that a seller is too busy with their life to complete a timely transaction. If you're too busy to complete transactions, why have a sale in the first place? (shrug)

 

Not making excuses for anyone, but there has to be some leeway here. Death in the family, loss of job, divorce, car wreck etc.

 

But barring a life changing event, I'd say 30 days is plenty of time to complete a transaction.

You are right that those are valid reasons. I just do not get how he can be too busy if that is what the excuse is and he has continued to post here on the boards (10 times or so today).

 

Very much agreed. The flashing envelope isn't that hard to miss.

 

Very easy to ignore though (thumbs u

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I've got a potentially, problematic purchase as well and I'm curious how the probation list works if it comes to that.

 

I posted a :takeit: on a sales thread back on 4/3/2012 for a specific item. In all the transactions that I've completed on the board, granted only about 4 (just under 3k worth of transactions), the seller normally responds with an invoice so I normally just wait and no money has changed hands yet so I'm not really worried about it. About a week later (4/10/2012), I get a message saying the seller didn't see the :takeit: but that the item was on hold before I posted the :takeit: anyway (no info posted to the thread). I said OK. The seller comes back one day later (4/11/2012) and states that the item is still available and mine if I want it, I guess the original transaction fell through. I still wanted it and I promptly paypaled money on 4/12/2012 and the seller responds stating that he'll get back to me with tracking/carrier information. I don't hear back from the seller for about a week. I PM the seller on 4/20/2012 asking if he's had a chance to get the item in the mail. He responds on 4/20/2012 saying no but he'll get it in the mail shortly, I don't hear back that he's put it in the mail so I wait another week and PM again 4 days ago on 4/28/2012. I've had no response at this point but I don't see that the message has been read. So maybe the seller has just been really busy. (shrug)

 

So it's now been just under 30 days since I started the transaction and just under 20 days since I've payed. Everything could still be fine and maybe the seller has some personal problems that are causing extremely slow shipping. So, I have a few questions.

 

1. Let's say that I don't hear from the seller by 5/11/2012, 30 days from when I paid, what process do I need to go through to submit the seller for probation? I'm willing to post a PM transcript and Paypal transcript.

 

2. Also, let's say that the seller responds but does not deliver the item by 30 days after payment has been received. Should I continue forward with requesting an election to the probation list or trust that the seller will deliver the item?

 

3. Just under $400 dollars has been sent to the seller ($382 to be exact). I know this is not a huge sum compared to some of the transactions on the list but $400 is a moderate transaction for me. Unfortunately, naively perhaps, I sent the payment as a gift so the seller would not be charged any Paypal fees. The seller did not request this but the seller is a boardie who has been here a long time and was selling the item for under the last GPA sale so I sent it as a personal payment so as not to hit the seller with any additional fees. So I'm not sure that I have any recourse to recover the money in the event that this transaction goes sideways. In that case, if actual money has changed hands and no item is delivered is this sufficient to submit the seller for the HOS list?

 

Again, everything could turn out OK but I am somewhat concerned about the communication and how long this transaction is taking. I would like to get everything in order to at least inform other board members about the problem if necessary. I will wait until 5/11/2012 which is roughly 30 days after I sent money although 5/3/2012 is when I commenced this transaction.

 

Beyond that, are there any thoughts on this? Am I being overly paranoid about the transaction? TIA.

Edited by Walls
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I've got a potentially, problematic purchase as well and I'm curious how the probation list works if it comes to that.

 

I posted a :takeit: on a sales thread back on 4/3/2012 for a specific item. In all the transactions that I've completed on the board, granted only about 4 (just under 3k worth of transactions), the seller normally responds with an invoice so I normally just wait and no money has changed hands yet so I'm not really worried about it. About a week later (4/10/2012), I get a message saying the seller didn't see the :takeit: but that the item was on hold before I posted the :takeit: anyway (no info posted to the thread). I said OK. The seller comes back one day later (4/11/2012) and states that the item is still available and mine if I want it, I guess the original transaction fell through. I still wanted it and I promptly paypaled money on 4/12/2012 and the seller responds stating that he'll get back to me with tracking/carrier information. I don't hear back from the seller for about a week. I PM the seller on 4/20/2012 asking if he's had a chance to get the item in the mail. He responds on 4/20/2012 saying no but he'll get it in the mail shortly, I don't hear back that he's put it in the mail so I wait another week and PM again 4 days ago on 4/28/2012. I've had no response at this point but I don't see that the message has been read. So maybe the seller has just been really busy. (shrug)

 

So it's now been just under 30 days since I started the transaction and just under 20 days since I've payed. Everything could still be fine and maybe the seller has some personal problems that are causing extremely slow shipping. So, I have a few questions.

 

1. Let's say that I don't hear from the seller by 5/11/2012, 30 days from when I paid, what process do I need to go through to submit the seller for probation? I'm willing to post a PM transcript and Paypal transcript.

30 days after paying, if you haven't got the comic(s) and you're concerned, just put up a post like the one you already have. Then the seller gets a couple days to respond in this thread.

 

2. Also, let's say that the seller responds but does not deliver the item by 30 days after payment has been received. Should I continue forward with requesting an election to the probation list or trust that the seller will deliver the item?

It's up to you. If you trust the guy, then give him some more time. If you're skeptical, bring it up here. Again, he's gonna get a couple days to reply in public. And don't forget, if you gets on the PL and then you get your comics, you can take his name right off the list.

 

3. Just under $400 dollars has been sent to the seller ($382 to be exact). I know this is not a huge sum compared to some of the transactions on the list but $400 is a moderate transaction for me. Unfortunately, naively perhaps, I sent the payment as a gift so the seller would not be charged any Paypal fees. The seller did not request this but the seller is a boardie who has been here a long time and was selling the item for under the last GPA sale so I sent it as a personal payment so as not to hit the seller with any additional fees. So I'm not sure that I have any recourse to recover the money in the event that this transaction goes sideways. In that case, if actual money has changed hands and no item is delivered is this sufficient to submit the seller for the HOS list?

If you voluntarily sent your payment as a gift, and he did not request that, it's' not really fair to hold it against him. That aside, being put in the HOS is a pretty big deal. Usually people have to behave very badly, repeatedly, show no remorse, have no decent excuse, etc. And I believe we're still leaving the HOS up to a group vote, as opposed to the PL. (Is that still true?)

 

Again, everything could turn out OK but I am somewhat concerned about the communication and how long this transaction is taking. I would like to get everything in order to at least inform other board members about the problem if necessary. I will wait until 5/11/2012 which is roughly 30 days after I sent money although 5/3/2012 is when I commenced this transaction.

 

Beyond that, are there any thoughts on this? Am I being overly paranoid about the transaction? TIA.

You're not being paranoid. Chances are everything will work out fine, but this sort of situation is the reason the PL exists.

Edited by Speedy-D
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Maybe it's just my perspective, and I wasn't here when it was discussed and created, but the '30 Day Rule" seems incredibly long to me.

 

I would think that if someone hasn't given you a delivery confirmation number within a week of taking your money, there's either something wrong or they aren't really taking the sale seriously.

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Maybe it's just my perspective, and I wasn't here when it was discussed and created, but the '30 Day Rule" seems incredibly long to me.

 

I would think that if someone hasn't given you a delivery confirmation number within a week of taking your money, there's either something wrong or they aren't really taking the sale seriously.

30 days for comics to ship is a bit long, but the number was decided upon because it allows for a decent amount of padding ... after waiting 30 days, no one can say you're jumping the gun. It also allows for any USPS tricksiness.

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Maybe it's just my perspective, and I wasn't here when it was discussed and created, but the '30 Day Rule" seems incredibly long to me.

 

I would think that if someone hasn't given you a delivery confirmation number within a week of taking your money, there's either something wrong or they aren't really taking the sale seriously.

30 days for comics to ship is a bit long, but the number was decided upon because it allows for a decent amount of padding ... after waiting 30 days, no one can say you're jumping the gun. It also allows for any USPS tricksiness.

 

I see.

 

But since the seller can't control the exact arrival date, wouldn't it make more sense to focus on the actual ship date which is completely traceable with a confirmation number?

 

 

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I suppose you're right. I just don't like the idea of being responsible for someone ending up in the Probation list and not being able to buy/sell on the site. I don't want them nominated, I'd just like some resolution. Even if the answer is just "I don't want to sell my comics to you". I'd be disappointed, but that would be enough to end it for me. I don't understand being intentionally avoided.

 

The seller was "cheetah", and the sales thread was here:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5491537&fpart=5

 

I posted the first "Take It" on 3/4/12, sent the first PM inquiry on 3/31/12, the second on 4/23/12, the third on 4/28/12 and then as suggested earlier here, on 4/29/12 sent an entirely new PM copying the contents of the first PM string in its entirety with a link to the sale and a note saying I was just making sure they hadn't accidentally removed themselves from the previous PM. Only the PM from 3/31/12 was read. Even the new PM from 4/29/12 was not.

 

Well, I hope Cheetah checks your PM. Actually, you could send him another one with "I've added you to the Probation List" as your title. That should get his attention.

 

 

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OK, that all sounds fair to me and I'm with you up until the point where you say don't hold it against the seller. To be honest with you, we're not speaking about someone simply saying I'll take it and then failing to complete the transaction. IMO, that's just a minor annoyance and receiving money and not sending the item should be a much more serious infraction than simply failing to complete a transaction you've committed to. In this case, a moderate sum of money has changed hands. I most certainly will hold it against the seller if I do not receive the item as agreed upon or the monies back. I'm already a bit annoyed by the whole thing, I tried to be as considerate as possible from my side of the transaction, I paid almost immediately upon agreeing to the deal and I paid in a fashion that would mitigate any fees levied against the seller. Already, IMHO, the seller is not showing the same consideration I showed, which I find troubling.

 

I'm trying to temper this with the consideration that maybe the seller has some personal issues going on with his/her life and I know I am somewhat paranoid about transactions on the Internet so I'm trying to factor that in as well. After all the seller hasn't read my latest PM so maybe there is something going on that is interfering with the ability to complete the transaction; however, I think consideration could have been shown to communicate that issue. Personally, I have a couple of jobs a 3yo and my wife and I are in the process of finding a new tenant for one of our properties but I would still go out of my way to be timely about obligations that I might have. I've sold books before as well and I know it doesn't take that long to box a book with protection and put it in the mail.

 

(shrug)

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I agree with you 100% (thumbs u

 

This whole "personal issues" or "life gets in the way" is the most ridiculous excuse ive ever heard? what are they 5 years old?!?

 

Pretty much ALL of us have jobs, family, kids, personal issues, injuries, whatever and still manage not to basically steal someones money and not send what they paid for. Ignoring an :takeit: is one thing, once you've PAID.....thats a different story. I dont care what has happened in your life, unless you are in a hospital in a coma, send the books you took money for! Everyone has their problems but manages not to steal from people which not sending the books after being paid is in my mind.

 

I'm shocked how much leeway people are ready to give because of a stupid "my life is more important than comics" excuse. Once someone pays you, there is no excuse short of a debilitating injury to not send what was paid for rantrant

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OK, that all sounds fair to me and I'm with you up until the point where you say don't hold it against the seller. To be honest with you, we're not speaking about someone simply saying I'll take it and then failing to complete the transaction. IMO, that's just a minor annoyance and receiving money and not sending the item should be a much more serious infraction than simply failing to complete a transaction you've committed to. In this case, a moderate sum of money has changed hands. I most certainly will hold it against the seller if I do not receive the item as agreed upon or the monies back. I'm already a bit annoyed by the whole thing, I tried to be as considerate as possible from my side of the transaction, I paid almost immediately upon agreeing to the deal and I paid in a fashion that would mitigate any fees levied against the seller. Already, IMHO, the seller is not showing the same consideration I showed, which I find troubling.

 

I'm trying to temper this with the consideration that maybe the seller has some personal issues going on with his/her life and I know I am somewhat paranoid about transactions on the Internet so I'm trying to factor that in as well. After all the seller hasn't read my latest PM so maybe there is something going on that is interfering with the ability to complete the transaction; however, I think consideration could have been shown to communicate that issue. Personally, I have a couple of jobs a 3yo and my wife and I are in the process of finding a new tenant for one of our properties but I would still go out of my way to be timely about obligations that I might have. I've sold books before as well and I know it doesn't take that long to box a book with protection and put it in the mail.

 

(shrug)

I just meant that if you took it upon yourself to send the money as a gift, thereby limiting your options with Paypal, that's on you. Of course, the seller it's still responsible for sending the comics, and if they don't that's all on them.

 

As for the "life gets in the way" excuse, that's another reason for the 30 day allowance. If life gets more in the way than 30 days will cover, you gotta handle your business.

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I agree with you 100% (thumbs u

 

This whole "personal issues" or "life gets in the way" is the most ridiculous excuse ive ever heard? what are they 5 years old?!?

 

Pretty much ALL of us have jobs, family, kids, personal issues, injuries, whatever and still manage not to basically steal someones money and not send what they paid for. Ignoring an :takeit: is one thing, once you've PAID.....thats a different story. I dont care what has happened in your life, unless you are in a hospital in a coma, send the books you took money for! Everyone has their problems but manages not to steal from people which not sending the books after being paid is in my mind.

 

I'm shocked how much leeway people are ready to give because of a stupid "my life is more important than comics" excuse. Once someone pays you, there is no excuse short of a debilitating injury to not send what was paid for rantrant

 

I'm not ready to call this one theft yet, I mean the seller could be in the middle of chemotherapy or in a coma as you've mentioned. Right now its just really slow shipping and handling until I guess the 30 day criteria has been met. And who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and the package will show up this week or early next in the mail and the seller just failed to communicate that the item was shipped. Other than that I 100% agree with you. Also, I agree with the excuses as well. S&H time should take no more than three days unless agreed upon during the negotiating of the transaction. Regardless, I think sellers and buyers need to take this very seriously and communication is essential.

 

However, if it gets past this I guess I would consider it theft. If it comes to that I'm still considering how I will handle it. However, in cases of theft I think this should be an automatic nomination to the HoS list until the person resolves the issue. IMO, posting a :takeit: and then failing to complete a transaction is not even in the same ballpark as taking monies and failing to provide the item. A buyer attempting to commit fraud should be held to the same standard. Regardless of whether the amount is in the hundreds or thousands. In some states (my state included, VA), theft is considered a felony if its over $200.....

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I agree with you 100% (thumbs u

 

This whole "personal issues" or "life gets in the way" is the most ridiculous excuse ive ever heard? what are they 5 years old?!?

 

Pretty much ALL of us have jobs, family, kids, personal issues, injuries, whatever and still manage not to basically steal someones money and not send what they paid for. Ignoring an :takeit: is one thing, once you've PAID.....thats a different story. I dont care what has happened in your life, unless you are in a hospital in a coma, send the books you took money for! Everyone has their problems but manages not to steal from people which not sending the books after being paid is in my mind.

 

I'm shocked how much leeway people are ready to give because of a stupid "my life is more important than comics" excuse. Once someone pays you, there is no excuse short of a debilitating injury to not send what was paid for rantrant

 

I'm not ready to call this one theft yet, I mean the seller could be in the middle of chemotherapy or in a coma as you've mentioned. Right now its just really slow shipping and handling until I guess the 30 day criteria has been met. And who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and the package will show up this week or early next in the mail and the seller just failed to communicate that the item was shipped. Other than that I 100% agree with you. Also, I agree with the excuses as well. S&H time should take no more than three days unless agreed upon during the negotiating of the transaction. Regardless, I think sellers and buyers need to take this very seriously and communication is essential.

 

However, if it gets past this I guess I would consider it theft. If it comes to that I'm still considering how I will handle it. However, in cases of theft I think this should be an automatic nomination to the HoS list until the person resolves the issue. IMO, posting a :takeit: and then failing to complete a transaction is not even in the same ballpark as taking monies and failing to provide the item. A buyer attempting to commit fraud should be held to the same standard. Regardless of whether the amount is in the hundreds or thousands. In some states (my state included, VA), theft is considered a felony if its over $200.....

International transit time is probably going to run 10-14 business days - presuming southbound is the same as northbound.

I'm guessing you guys are both in the same boat but chirping about it here before 30 days is up seems kinda petty to me considering it's being done in a thread where actual bad deals are intended to be brought up. Once I buy a book I want it ASAP just like you guys, I think all collectors are like that but griping about it publicly while sharing your OCD fueled customer service expectations & relating it to the PL/HOS/theft/fraud is kind of dumb.

 

Speculating the extent to which "real life" would/could/should impact service on someone who hasn't posted in a week is dumber than what I mentioned in the first paragraph.

 

The forum has a kudos thread, there is no anti-kudos thread where you can critique sellers/buyers - right now all you can do is choose to privately avoid a seller/buyer who doesn't meet service expectations that YOU have that exceed those of the community. I'd think non-infractions would be stuff like: - books arrived intact but weren't well packed, shipper delayed shipping out my books for a week with no communication/explanation - - -

 

:eyeroll: < ---- closest I could come to a STFU graemlin

 

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Instead of searching for cute little graemlins to suit your needs, perhaps a reading comprehension course would be useful (thumbs u

 

I've got no dog in this fight. I'm not complaining about anyone and have no "sour deals" pending so why are you quoting me saying I'm person_without_enough_empathying about a bad seller??? (shrug) I'm just agreeing with someone who does have a problem and giving my opinion. If you like waiting around for someone to send what you paid for until their life is absolutely perfect, great for you! I pay for my books immediately and expect the same courtesy in sending my books as soon as reasonably possible.

 

It has nothing to do with OCD. When I pay for something, I expect to receive it in a timely manner or have some communication explaining why that isn't happening. As far as I know, that's how buying/selling works on this planet. "life issues"??? Honestly, I could give two craps about that. Everyone has problems but still manage to do what needs to be done without curling up in a ball and Sucking their thumb ignoring their responsibilities until life is perfect again.

 

It doesnt strike you as odd how no one EVER has one of these major "life issues" when setting up a sales thread and taking your money? Weird how that only comes up AFTER someone has your money.

 

Oh and don't give me the "it's only comics so relax" line. If they are only comics and don't matter, then don't sell them and collect people's money. I don't care if it's a stick of gum, when I pay for it, get it to me in a timely manner or communicate why you aren't. Doing anything less is the nothing but selfish, immature and unacceptable in my book (thumbs u

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