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#5785871 - 06/20/12 12:32 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: fantastic_four]
fantastic_four Offline

Just far far too long without a custom title. Really. Seriously now. 2002?

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Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 19644
Loc: the Baxter Building, Virginia
 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
 Originally Posted By: comicwiz
The website sounds like commercial use to me. That would be an AVOID from where I'm sitting.


To the best of my understanding, CGC's clause is unenforceable because the notes are too generic and non-unique expressions, they are essentially data and copyright law does not protect data. We discussed that earlier in this thread, but mostly in passing--we've discussed it in other threads in much more depth. Here is the Supreme Court case that established you can't copyright data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural

In this case one telephone company sued another telephone company for copying their customer's phone numbers directly from their own telephone book and putting it in a competing phone book...they could tell they did it because they were intentionally putting fake names and numbers in their book and found those fakes in their competitor's phone book. Note the very first line of the Wikipedia article says the case established that "information alone without a minimum of original creativity cannot be protected by copyright." I can't see anything about CGC's notes that doesn't fall within that definition of data--someone correct me if I'm overlooking something. \(shrug\)


Oh, and this is about the third or fourth time I've discussed this topic here, but every time I've talked about it I've wondered and never known--has Canada or the UK established similar law about whether or not you can copyright data? I have no idea, I live in the US and obviously this Supreme Court decision only applies here. In the case of the grader's notes, it obviously would apply since CGC is an American company, but I don't know if you Brits and Canucks are as free to plunder non-original information as we are here--if anyone knows, I'd love to hear how it works in your countries.
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#5827140 - 07/06/12 09:18 AM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Bob-a-loo]
Bob-a-loo Offline
Pedigreed


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5130
Loc: New Jersey
Now this is PROGRESS \(thumbs u

CGC Grader Notes Fee Reduction
Dear valued CGC members,

Many of you have voiced your concerns about the new fee structure for obtaining CGC Grader Notes online. We believe the original fees were fair, based on the time and expertise required of the CGC graders, but we wanted to grant access to this information to as many people as possible. We have considered all of your feedback and have decided to reduce the Grader Notes fees on comics and magazines submitted under Standard and higher tiers.

The revised CGC Grader Notes fees are:

• Economy, Value and Modern — $5 (no change)
• Express and Standard — $10
• WalkThru — $15

At the same time, we are also creating a new Elite level of the CGC Collectors Society that offers members a 20% discount on the reduced Grader Notes fees, as well as 15% off grading fees on regular submissions. Dealers will receive the same 20% discount on Grader Notes.

There were significant upfront costs to make Grader Notes available, and there remains a considerable commitment to maintain the database and process new requests. While we had previously offered Grader Notes for free over the phone, the volume of calls had reached a point where graders spent hours on the phone each day, and their time is best spent grading new submissions. We want to continue to make these notes available to collectors and dealers, but to do so we must charge a modest fee. We believe the reduced fees are an appropriate middle ground that accommodates the best interests of collectors, dealers and CGC.

Thank you for your continued support.

Sincerely,

CGC Management

Good move CGC
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#5827168 - 07/06/12 09:30 AM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Bob-a-loo]
Peter Loves Gwen Offline
If you have a dream about out-posting me, you better wake up and apologize.


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 2786
Loc: Near Dollywood, TN.
 Originally Posted By: Bob-a-loo
Now this is PROGRESS \(thumbs u

CGC Grader Notes Fee Reduction
Dear valued CGC members,

Many of you have voiced your concerns about the new fee structure for obtaining CGC Grader Notes online. We believe the original fees were fair, based on the time and expertise required of the CGC graders, but we wanted to grant access to this information to as many people as possible. We have considered all of your feedback and have decided to reduce the Grader Notes fees on comics and magazines submitted under Standard and higher tiers.

The revised CGC Grader Notes fees are:

• Economy, Value and Modern — $5 (no change)
• Express and Standard — $10
• WalkThru — $15

At the same time, we are also creating a new Elite level of the CGC Collectors Society that offers members a 20% discount on the reduced Grader Notes fees, as well as 15% off grading fees on regular submissions. Dealers will receive the same 20% discount on Grader Notes.

There were significant upfront costs to make Grader Notes available, and there remains a considerable commitment to maintain the database and process new requests. While we had previously offered Grader Notes for free over the phone, the volume of calls had reached a point where graders spent hours on the phone each day, and their time is best spent grading new submissions. We want to continue to make these notes available to collectors and dealers, but to do so we must charge a modest fee. We believe the reduced fees are an appropriate middle ground that accommodates the best interests of collectors, dealers and CGC.

Thank you for your continued support.

Sincerely,

CGC Management

Good move CGC


Email from CGC last night at 8:05PM.
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#5829649 - 07/07/12 10:02 AM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Peter Loves Gwen]
Bob-a-loo Offline
Pedigreed


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5130
Loc: New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Peter Loves Gwen
Email from CGC last night at 8:05PM.

Yep \(thumbs u
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#6640213 - 04/25/13 02:34 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Bob-a-loo]
Transplant Offline

WARNING!!! This member is passive aggressive. Please beware of sharp fingernails.

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Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 14542
Loc: Ellen James Society
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GACollectibles: It seems very....passive aggressive.
DrWatson: I have known him several years and I can say with some absurdness that there isn't anything passive about him.

Passive Aggressive spite posting like a B0$$, since 2007.

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#6640230 - 04/25/13 02:40 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Transplant]
nearmint Offline
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Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 23962
Loc: Newport Beach, CA, where the o...
I still think graders notes should be supplied free of charge to the submitter, printed out and included in the box with the newly slabbed books.
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Currently available on DETECTIVE27.COM: Tales of Suspense #57 CGC 9.0(1st Hawkeye), America's Best Comics #1 CGC 8.5(highest graded), Batman #27 CGC 9.0, Batman #40 CGC 9.2, Strange Adventures #205 9.4, and World's Finest #2 CGC 8.0(highest graded).

WANTED: A COVERLESS ACTION 13 IN NICE SHAPE. Also, high grade copies of Action #39, 40, Adventure 267, 282, 283, Batman #11, Brave & the Bold #28, Captain America #37, Detective #69, and Superboy 93.


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#6640241 - 04/25/13 02:44 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: nearmint]
Bronty Offline

You know that guy that shows up an hour early for parties? Yah. I'm him.

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Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 15231
Loc: Canada
then they'd have to be accountable for the notes Jeff. Which is a good thing from our POV but from their POV their calls b!tching about this or that would quadruple overnight. I would imagine that they don't care to be accountable for the notes and I imagine that if they could, they'd go back in time and never had made the notes publicly available at all.
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#6640300 - 04/25/13 03:08 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Bronty]
slym2none Offline
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Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 12801
Loc: a cincture wormhole
I still call BS on this - graders notes should be part of the package we pay for when getting a book slabbed. I also think DVR should be included in the cable/internet/phone bundle. The services we pay for and what we get from said services rarely seem to ever match...

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-slym
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#6640393 - 04/25/13 03:44 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: nearmint]
Aces Offline

Seemed lonely sitting around with no custom title.

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Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 32975
Loc: Phil's Parking Lot
 Originally Posted By: nearmint
I still think graders notes should be supplied free of charge to the submitter, printed out and included in the box with the newly slabbed books.

Certainly on comics standard tier and above.
Paying $60 to get a comic graded and having to pay more to see the notes?
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#6640527 - 04/25/13 04:35 PM Re: Grader Notes [Re: Aces]
Jaded Savage Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 687
Why the hell should I pay for grader notes when I'm droppin' cash to get them shipped, graded, and shipped again? If it takes too much time and effort to print and include them with the books, why not have them be accessable online?
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