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#5589973 - 04/10/12 01:17 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: coinman_23885]
kryptonitecomics Offline
First Official Signature Set
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8274
Loc: O-Town Baby! Home of the Magic
I have folks buy coins from me and use my images all the time to resell the same coins. I don't try to stop them as usually it's these flippers who bid my auctions up to strong prices since they plan to use the images. If I were to water mark or somehow prevent them from using my images it would most likely hurt my final sale prices. Beside most of the time the BIN prices they are asking are so rediculous that the coins will never sell even with top notch images lol
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Kryptonitecomics
"AKA" Shane"

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#5589986 - 04/10/12 01:24 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: astrostu]
BKW Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 448

Although an author has a copyright in his work at the moment of creation, unless that work is registered with United States Copyright Office (part of the Library of Congress), the copyright owner's rights under the law are limited.

So if anyone creates anything and wants the full benefit of copyright law make sure the work is registered (e.g. without registration you have no right to file suit in federal court, no right to statutory damages and no right to recover your attorneys' fees).

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#5589989 - 04/10/12 01:24 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: kryptonitecomics]
coinman_23885 Offline
Pedigreed


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 6456
 Originally Posted By: kryptonitecomics
I have folks buy coins from me and use my images all the time to resell the same coins. I don't try to stop them as usually it's these flippers who bid my auctions up to strong prices since they plan to use the images. If I were to water mark or somehow prevent them from using my images it would most likely hurt my final sale prices. Beside most of the time the BIN prices they are asking are so rediculous that the coins will never sell even with top notch images lol


Even though you are absolutely correct that the photographs are technically your intellectual property, I think it is distinguishable from this scenario. When people use your photographs, they have at least compensated you for something (i.e. the coin itself). In this scenario, he is getting nothing.
_________________________
Areas of Interest: Southern Mint gold; early copper; high end U.S. type coinage; proof like and DMPL/DPL coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; 1936-1942 cameo proofs; matte proof Lincoln Cents and Buffalo Nickels; and Capped Bust Half Dollars.

Useful Links: RWB - Factors in Peace Dollar Toning; Sunnywood Classification; Morgan Dollar Toning; Science of Toning

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#5589998 - 04/10/12 01:30 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: BKW]
coinman_23885 Offline
Pedigreed


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 6456
 Originally Posted By: BKW

Although an author has a copyright in his work at the moment of creation, unless that work is registered with United States Copyright Office (part of the Library of Congress), the copyright owner's rights under the law are limited.

So if anyone creates anything and wants the full benefit of copyright law make sure the work is registered (e.g. without registration you have no right to file suit in federal court, no right to statutory damages and no right to recover your attorneys' fees).



I'm admittedly not an intellectual property attorney, but I do not think this is completely correct. While a failure to register your copyright will limit your rights and remedies, you still have some remedies available as a matter of law; however, there are evidentiary issues (like proving ownership, etc.) that you don't have with proper registration (which creates certain legal presumptions). With this said, if he writes the copyright infringer and he refuses to comply, then he should have legal recourse (providing the evidentiary issues are resolved); however, I doubt he would get much or if it would be worth his time to pursue the seller. Now if he contacts eBay and they continue to host the images, then that might be a different story.


Edited by coinman_23885 (04/10/12 01:32 PM)
_________________________
Areas of Interest: Southern Mint gold; early copper; high end U.S. type coinage; proof like and DMPL/DPL coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; 1936-1942 cameo proofs; matte proof Lincoln Cents and Buffalo Nickels; and Capped Bust Half Dollars.

Useful Links: RWB - Factors in Peace Dollar Toning; Sunnywood Classification; Morgan Dollar Toning; Science of Toning

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#5590022 - 04/10/12 01:38 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: brg5658]
coinman_23885 Offline
Pedigreed


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 6456
 Originally Posted By: brg5658

From a copyright standpoint, the seller was not breaking any laws. The images are clearly marked with your copyright symbol and name, and the seller displayed said images without removing that. Thus, credit was given where credit was due....even though he didn't ask.



I would make a distinction between plagiarism and copyright infringement. Even if credit and citations are used, if the distributor doesn't have a license, then he or she may still be breaking the relevant copyright laws. This isn't like academia (again because of the fair use exceptions under the DMCA) where you are tolerated if you make appropriate citations. This is completely different.


Edited by coinman_23885 (04/10/12 01:39 PM)
_________________________
Areas of Interest: Southern Mint gold; early copper; high end U.S. type coinage; proof like and DMPL/DPL coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; 1936-1942 cameo proofs; matte proof Lincoln Cents and Buffalo Nickels; and Capped Bust Half Dollars.

Useful Links: RWB - Factors in Peace Dollar Toning; Sunnywood Classification; Morgan Dollar Toning; Science of Toning

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#5590374 - 04/10/12 03:38 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: coinman_23885]
BKW Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 448
 Originally Posted By: coinman_23885
 Originally Posted By: BKW

Although an author has a copyright in his work at the moment of creation, unless that work is registered with United States Copyright Office (part of the Library of Congress), the copyright owner's rights under the law are limited.

So if anyone creates anything and wants the full benefit of copyright law make sure the work is registered (e.g. without registration you have no right to file suit in federal court, no right to statutory damages and no right to recover your attorneys' fees).



I'm admittedly not an intellectual property attorney, but I do not think this is completely correct. While a failure to register your copyright will limit your rights and remedies, you still have some remedies available as a matter of law; however, there are evidentiary issues (like proving ownership, etc.) that you don't have with proper registration (which creates certain legal presumptions). With this said, if he writes the copyright infringer and he refuses to comply, then he should have legal recourse (providing the evidentiary issues are resolved); however, I doubt he would get much or if it would be worth his time to pursue the seller. Now if he contacts eBay and they continue to host the images, then that might be a different story.


Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin. If made before or within five years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the registration certificate. If registration is made within three months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to the copyright owner. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and lost profits is available to the copyright owner.

Ebay likely has protection under the safe harbor provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. However, if they ignore a validly and properly sent "take down notice" they could be subject to liability.

I agree that in this case it would not be worth the OP's time and effort to attempt to file a lawsuit. However, if someone were self-publishing a book or otherwise creating numismatic literature (whether in print or on-line) that took significant time and research to create, they should make sure the work is registered. Trust me on this, I am an intellectual property attorney (though the above is not intented as specific legal advice, only general information).

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#5590473 - 04/10/12 04:18 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: coinman_23885]
BKW Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 448
 Originally Posted By: coinman_23885
 Originally Posted By: brg5658

From a copyright standpoint, the seller was not breaking any laws. The images are clearly marked with your copyright symbol and name, and the seller displayed said images without removing that. Thus, credit was given where credit was due....even though he didn't ask.



I would make a distinction between plagiarism and copyright infringement. Even if credit and citations are used, if the distributor doesn't have a license, then he or she may still be breaking the relevant copyright laws. This isn't like academia (again because of the fair use exceptions under the DMCA) where you are tolerated if you make appropriate citations. This is completely different.


Mere attribution of the author of a copyrighted work is not a defense to an infrigement suit. Attribution coupled with a fair use exception as codified by the Copyright Act of 1978 and subsequent case law is a defense. The DMCA is a 1998 statute that, among other things and in certain instances, limits the liability of third parties (like ISPs) for infringing materials appearing on sites which they host or are under their control.

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#5590535 - 04/10/12 04:46 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: BKW]
coinman_23885 Offline
Pedigreed


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 6456
 Originally Posted By: BKW
Trust me on this, I am an intellectual property attorney (though the above is not intented as specific legal advice, only general information).


I never doubted or questioned your knowledge. My one comment was only meant to suggest that actual damages would still be available, but would face the quandaries that you alluded to without proper registration. I appreciate the clarification.
_________________________
Areas of Interest: Southern Mint gold; early copper; high end U.S. type coinage; proof like and DMPL/DPL coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; 1936-1942 cameo proofs; matte proof Lincoln Cents and Buffalo Nickels; and Capped Bust Half Dollars.

Useful Links: RWB - Factors in Peace Dollar Toning; Sunnywood Classification; Morgan Dollar Toning; Science of Toning

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#5590557 - 04/10/12 04:58 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: coinman_23885]
BKW Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 448
 Originally Posted By: coinman_23885


I never doubted or questioned your knowledge.


Didn't mean to imply you did. Sorry. Thinking about Iegal issues makes me feel and I try to avoid it outside of work as much as possible...coins are way more fun.
-Brian


Edited by BKW (04/10/12 05:11 PM)

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#5590572 - 04/10/12 05:01 PM Re: eBay User Using My Photos/Text ... What to Do? [Re: coinman_23885]
brg5658 Offline
If you have a dream about out-posting me, you better wake up and apologize.


Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 2959
Loc: Minnesota
BKW, thanks so much for your clarification and expertise on this topic. It is much appreciated.

I happen to be a semi-pro photographer also, and I always consider the "theft" of my work (at least from the inter-webs) to be a compliment. It seems in the digital age, with billions and billions of images "available" from services such a Google image, the task of tracking down infringements would be almost insurmountable. Not to mention, I post my images on sites accessible by these search engines fully knowing that people do and will use them, without regard to copyright (or even attribution).

I read an article in the current issue of "American Photo" about a new venture to attempt to create a world-wide database of images and their respective copyrights/artists. While I thought it was an interesting idea, it seemed to be steeped mostly in a desire for large image copyright holding corporations to prosecute small-time infringers (somewhat similar to the "patent" debacle currently going down for such things as genes, concepts [like social media], and the likes).

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