Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
My issue is simple. People should be able to discuss their collecting needs and techniques as they pertain to coin collecting without backhanded references which assign them to marginal or disfunctional societal groups just because you do not happen to agree with their conclusions. This entire comparison and unfortunate refererence of associating collectors to people with social or personality disorders, based on their collecting preferences is out of line. Especially since none of you have clinical professional standing to even say this. Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?
Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 15172
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: rons
OK, I will bite. What the heck is a DSM?
I think it has something to do with how mental illnesses are "graded" in those unfortunate folks who may suffer such situations.
I can see both sides of the above discussion. Personally, I will not make fun of, or use in a humorous manner, references to physiological disabilities in others. But I also will make no demands on others to abide by my personal stance(s).
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Proud EX-50% owner of the banned PCGS-certified Norweb/non-Norweb Wood Hibernia
My posts express my PERSONAL opinions ONLY. Please respect my right to Freedom of Speech as I respect yours.
If this thread is read in its entirety it is abundantly clear that no harm nor foul was intended. If someone cares to interpret it otherwise, that is their personal choice.
My issue is simple. People should be able to discuss their collecting needs and techniques as they pertain to coin collecting without backhanded references which assign them to marginal or disfunctional societal groups just because you do not happen to agree with their conclusions. This entire comparison and unfortunate reference of associating collectors to people with social or personality disorders, based on their collecting preferences is out of line. Especially since none of you have clinical professional standing to even say this. Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?
How would you know this? I have training in clinical psychology, and graduate training in general psychology. Moreover, in reference to the comments about the DSM, even clinical psychologists will admit that some of the definitions are off and lacking, and result in the codification of disorders that really aren't disorders per se. It's part of the fun. You could equally interpret the statements as mocking the DSM, but also poking fun at what some would arguably call absurd practices in numismatics. Again, why are you so offended? Are you among those inflicted with Brandon's completely hilarious and tentative disorder?
Edited by coinman_23885 (04/05/1212:38 PM)
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-Kenny
Areas of Interest: Original classic gold coins from the Southern mints (New Orleans, Charlotte, and Dahlonega); Carson City minted Morgan Dollars, early copper; high end, quality U.S. type coinage; proof like and deep mirror prooflike coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; and cameo and deep/ultra cameo proof coins from 1936-1942.
Why are you upset? I have read the last page of this thread 5 times and have no idea what you are talking about.
Which is interesting because until the last couple of posts I had NO idea what ANYONE was talking about. DSM-V? huh?
jom
See OT3, it's educational as well.
Edited to add: This will be my last post to this thread. I can see that further discussion will not be fruitful, and will be a complete waste of everyone's time.
Edited by coinman_23885 (04/05/1212:38 PM)
_________________________
-Kenny
Areas of Interest: Original classic gold coins from the Southern mints (New Orleans, Charlotte, and Dahlonega); Carson City minted Morgan Dollars, early copper; high end, quality U.S. type coinage; proof like and deep mirror prooflike coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; and cameo and deep/ultra cameo proof coins from 1936-1942.
My issue is simple. People should be able to discuss their collecting needs and techniques as they pertain to coin collecting without backhanded references which assign them to marginal or disfunctional societal groups just because you do not happen to agree with their conclusions. This entire comparison and unfortunate refererence of associating collectors to people with social or personality disorders, based on their collecting preferences is out of line. Especially since none of you have clinical professional standing to even say this. Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?
As a clinical professional I can say that the idea that people with a diagnosed or undiagnosed mental illness are somehow "marginal" or belong to a "dysfunctional societal group" is complete and utter nonsense. Society may see them as such, but in fact they are not. The fact is that everyone will qualify for a diagnosable mental illness at some point in their lives. Everyone. The current DSM is so broad that I can spend 1 hour with a person getting a brief life history and easily find several periods of their life where they would qualify for a diagnosis. A clinical professional wouldn't be caught dead calling everyone with a mental illness "marginal."
Many very famous and accomplished people have had a mental illness, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, and Isaac Newton to name a few (all of which have been prominently displayed on coins!) Many people with personality disorders find themselves being very successful business men and women. If I ever amount to anything even close to what these people have by all means - call me dysfunctional all you like.
There is much controversy in regards to the practice of diagnosing people with a mental illness precisely because of the weight society and/or the patient will put on that label and the fact that a diagnosis can be so freely given that it makes the term "mental illness" virtually meaningless. That is why it is easy for me to joke about adding one more diagnosis to the new DSM V - because as if the DSM IV didn't already have enough here we are adding a bunch of new ones to V. Many of us in this profession don't even use diagnoses when talking to our clients but use it strictly for insurance purposes.
Finally I just want to point out that the same stigma is not given for a medical diagnosis - cancer, diabetes, hypothyroidism, etc. We don't call those people dysfunctional...and yet the same processes are at play. Mental illness is often biological as are medical illnesses. Mental illness is often caused by lifestyle choices as are medical illnesses. Mental illness is often treatable (even curable) with therapy and/or pharmaceuticals as are medical illnesses. The differences are negligible (if any) and yet we are quick to judge those with mental illnesses.
If I contributed to your offense, I sincerely apologize but I would challenge you to not think of people with a mental illness as any less than yourself. I too didn't interpret the discussion to be rude or offensive - perhaps this is due to people in my profession routinely joking about which mental illness we have today.
#5577672 - 04/05/1201:20 PMRe: NGC vs PCGS Lincoln Cent Cost / Value
[Re: HCumberdale]
Lehigh96Lehigh96
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?
Registered: 03/28/08
Posts: 1888
Loc: The Poker Room
@OT3, it was an obvious joke and Kenny didn't start it, Brandon did. Lighten up, we aren't going to stop telling Polack jokes because we might offend someone of Polish descent either.
A man walked into a bar and asked the bartender, "Hey, have you heard the latest Polack joke?" The bartender replied, coldly, "No. And I'll have you know I'm Polish." That's O.K.," said the man, "I'll talk slow."
@HCumberdale
You seem to know a lot about this subject. Out of curiosity, is it more likely that I qualify for a disorder because I think I have a disorder or am I really suffering from caffeine intoxication disorder? Last night I had a double espresso and four cups of coffee. I took me hours to fall asleep and when I finally woke up, the first thing I did was brew another pot.
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
It came across to me as demeaning another group of collectors just because they don't agree with you. Then to compare these just regular collectors who who happen to disagree with you as being in a group of people who are often the brunt of jokes or target of this demeaning behavior to suit your own agenda, seems mean spirited. Maybe the spirit of this behavior is an east-coast or urban thing? Most people around here do not engage in this behavior.
In any event, I will collect what I want, regardless of how you perceive me.
