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#5546631 - 03/23/12 09:16 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: fantastic_four]
drice6900 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
 Originally Posted By: VintageComics
Hockey used to be a sport based on speed and finesse. So did basketball.


Basketball still is.


lol
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#5546634 - 03/23/12 09:20 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: drice6900]
fantastic_four Offline

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 Originally Posted By: drice6900
 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
Basketball still is.


lol


What? There have been physical players throughout the history of the NBA, but they've always been a small minority. The top NBA players have overwhelmingly relied more on skill than pushing--that seems only minorly different today than when Wilt was pushing people out of his way.
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#5546636 - 03/23/12 09:20 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: fantastic_four]
VintageComics Offline

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 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
 Originally Posted By: VintageComics
Hockey used to be a sport based on speed and finesse. So did basketball.


Basketball still is.


Have you ever seen Dwight Howard bring a monstrous throw down to his defence game? I've seen him throw people to the ground like it's a wrestling match.

Ron Artest (MettaWorldPeace now) and a few others will always be thugs in my books.

Every sport has them including basketball. Street thug, tough guy mentality being brought into sports is everywhere.
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#5546639 - 03/23/12 09:22 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: fantastic_four]
VintageComics Offline

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 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
 Originally Posted By: drice6900
 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
Basketball still is.


lol


What? There have been physical players throughout the history of the NBA, but they've always been a small minority. The top NBA players have overwhelmingly relied more on skill than pushing.


Agreed, with little protection and no contact allowed they're forced to rely on skill but there is still lots of thuggery attitude going on...the posturing after a dunk, the brawls.
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#5546653 - 03/23/12 09:27 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: VintageComics]
fantastic_four Offline

Just far far too long without a custom title. Really. Seriously now. 2002?

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 Originally Posted By: VintageComics
Have you ever seen Dwight Howard bring a monstrous throw down to his defence game? I've seen him throw people to the ground like it's a wrestling match.

Ron Artest (MettaWorldPeace now) and a few others will always be thugs in my books.

Every sport has them including basketball. Street thug, tough guy mentality being brought into sports is everywhere.


When has any team sport ever lacked a few thugs? They're a very small minority. Artest is the modern Charles Oakley or Rick Mahorn. Howard is doing to opponents--and they're doing the same to him, he gets fouled hard at LEAST twice as often as he actually gets calls--the same thing that Wilt did to opponents, just at an elevated physical level since players are far better athletes in general than they used to be. Plenty of older players were highly physical--Olajuwon could be a dirty player when he wanted to be. I'll see if I can find the video where he punches a player square in the face while they're looking up at rebounds at an angle he knew the official wouldn't be able to see.
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#5546666 - 03/23/12 09:37 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: fantastic_four]
fantastic_four Offline

Just far far too long without a custom title. Really. Seriously now. 2002?

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Check out this video from 1985 at the 7:15 mark--it's super-fast, only lasting half a second, on the far left edge of the screen, Hakeem sucker punches a Jazz player really fast so the officials wouldn't see it.

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#5546695 - 03/23/12 09:54 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: tth2]
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 Originally Posted By: tth2

Anyways, aren't you Canadian? Your national sport is built on thugs whose only job in life is to make illegal hits as retribution for illegal hits to the thug's star teammate. You think when an NHL coach puts one of the goons on the ice he's giving him instructions on plays to run? The only instruction he's giving is "go take out that so-and-so who just cheap shotted [fill in name of star player]."



Tim, I agree with you on the level of outrage regarding bounties. I don't feel the outrage is anywhere near what Vick was doing simply because it's just football. After the bounties are taken out of the equation we're still talking about football. And football is violent and guys are trying to knock the krap out of each other. I think a lot of people view it as simply paying guys "bonus" money to do what they'd be doing anyway. \(shrug\)

As for the NHL, it's not as insidious as you'd think. More often than not coaches have next to nothing to say to "goon" type players. Those guys have a role, they know what it is and they understand when the time for action is warranted. Basically there isn't a whole lot of coaching involved when it comes to retribution seeking. And I would argue that of all the major sports, hockey is probably still the most honorable. For instance, no matter how badly that goon wants to rough the other guy up, 9 times out of 10 he's making his intentions known out in the open. He's not out there waiting to deliver a sucker punch or take a guy's knees out. It's usually a verbal challenge and some physical act like shoving the other person to entice an altercation. There's a degree of honor and code in that.

Furthermore, how often do you see "goons" go after star players? I mean they try (and fail embarrassingly) to check them all the time. But go after them in the sense that they're going to drop the gloves and force a start player to fight them or slash them so badly they injure them. How often do you see that? Almost never. They mostly end up fighting some other poor guy who is equipped to handle the situation and unfortunately has to answer the bell b/c his more skilled teammate ought not be fighting. There are exceptions but it's rather rare. Enforcer on star acts of violence are very rare in the modern NHL.
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#5546712 - 03/23/12 09:59 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: VintageComics]
hockey&comicsguy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: VintageComics


Hockey used to be a sport based on speed and finesse. So did basketball. Bringing thuggery into sports is a bad sign of the times. It seems to be inherent with large money, big shoulder pads, etc.




Hockey is actually being played at a pace/speed much faster than it was during the obstruction years. Remember Theoren Fleury? How a guy his size ever survived the NHL is beyond me. Now there's a dearth of undersized guys. Why? Because the game has opened up and small, fast skaters have the room to let loose and actually utilize their speed without somebody hooking them and riding them like a water skier. Also the removal of the center red line has opened up the game beyond anything I ever imagined. No more 2 line pass rule to stifle the neutral zone and bog down offenses.

If you want to see finesse, watch the Red Wings Pavel Datsyuk. In my eyes, this is the most talented hockey player I have ever seen. More so than Gretzky, Lemieux, Alex Kovalev (who's probably the 2nd most skilled guy I have ever seen) or anybody else you could name. This guy is a wizard and does things that I have never seen another hockey player attempt let alone make look simple.

Lastly, big shoulder pads and hard-cap elbow pads are a huge contributing factor to the rise in concussions.
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#5546883 - 03/23/12 11:41 AM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: Crazy_Horse]
aggr1103 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: the_Thing
The "gangsta" culture has replaced sportsmanship in the NBA and NFL. I'm sure the coach will be paying for this long after his year suspension. IF he even comes back. Perhaps what goes around comes around and someone will put a bounty on him. I don't think he would like that very much.


Not saying its right, because it most certainly isn't, but I would not be surprised if Drew Brees gets targeted more this year as backlash from other teams.

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#5547915 - 03/23/12 07:55 PM Re: The NFL loses their mind - Sean Payton suspended a year [Re: fantastic_four]
MrBedrock Offline

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 Originally Posted By: fantastic_four
Check out this video from 1985 at the 7:15 mark--it's super-fast, only lasting half a second, on the far left edge of the screen, Hakeem sucker punches a Jazz player really fast so the officials wouldn't see it.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CgrqJnX7VwY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That wasn't a sucker punch. That was payback. The Jazz were the dirtiest team in basketball throughout the 80s and into the 90s. Getting a little revenge on Billy Paultz (The Whopper) was cheered throughout the land. Hakeem is still revered for that punch.
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