#5515263 - 03/11/12 03:21 PM
Re: 1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
[Re: James_EarlyUS]
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darrincraig1984
Hobbyist
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 45
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I am going to try and get some better photos of the coin...and put them on here. Now that I have looked really closely at the photos I can see what everyone is talking about. Let me try that I will see if I can have it done by the end of the day.
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#5515339 - 03/11/12 03:44 PM
Re: 1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
[Re: darrincraig1984]
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darrincraig1984
Hobbyist
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 45
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Alright well I think this is the best I can do hopefully this helps, I don't want to place the coin on my scanner at all or I would just do that.
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#5515745 - 03/11/12 05:54 PM
Re: 1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
[Re: darrincraig1984]
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supertooth
WYNTK FOUNDER
Bid more or post more... tough one...
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 994
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darrincraig--- I'm sorry, but those pictures are of NO VALUE.
I appreciate MarkT's comments. And, certainly you can tell that all of us simply do not like the coin. I've talked to a couple of these folks by PM---and the consensus of opinion is that, they knew that something was wrong as soon as they viewed the piece.
Simply put, we all want you to send the coin to either NGC or to PCGS----IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE PIECE. That way----ONE WAY OR THE OTHER---you will get an opinion of more than one grader----who can view the coin IN HAND.
Once two or three of them see the coin, you likely will get an accurate assessment. Then you can be pretty sure that what they say is PRETTY CLOSE TO THE TRUTH about the coin. Honestly, this is the MOST SENSIBLE thing to do----and exactly what I and the others have been recommending you to do---ALL ALONG. Naturally, it is ALWAYS YOUR CHOICE. But, if I had spent 4750 on a coin, I surely wouldn't worry about another hundred to find out THE TRUTH.
We here on these chat boards offer our best guesses and opinions. Every series has guys that are better at it than others. But, "ALWAYS" here at the NGC chat boards, we try to be as accurate as possible. But, our opinions mean only a subjective opinion from pictures. Sending to NGC or PCGS----gets you FAR MORE for what, in this case, is VERY LITTLE money.
Make arrangements with the seller if you really want the coin. Send the package to the TPG service----and BEGIN THE WAIT. If it comes back to your satisfaction, then keep it. If it comes back BAD, return it for a refund. Keeping it without being sure----IS "NOT" a GOOD OPTION IMHO. Bob [supertooth]
P.S. If we are all wrong, I think that ALL OF US would be glad for you.
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#5516875 - 03/12/12 01:40 AM
Re: 1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
[Re: coinman_23885]
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Oldtrader3
The Unknown Engineer
Pedigreed
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
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Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit. I'm 100% sure that the coin is not genuine. With this said, if you decide to submit it, you need to submit the coin as soon as it reaches you. I also recommend that you elect the Express service either here ($60 + shipping both ways) or at PCGS ($50 + shipping both ways) to guarantee that you have enough time to file a PayPal/eBay claim. It is my understanding that you have 30 days to file such a claim, but you should verify this for yourself. Good luck.
Just be cautious about informal guarantees of take back policies if it does not grade. I had an ex-President of the ANA stiff me on a MS64 high relief Peace dollar on his personal guarantee which was phony as a three dollar bill. It took the requested 5 weeks to get a grade from PCGS and he said it was too long, so get lost, he won't honor it. This was a dealer whom I had given thousands of dollars of business to for cash and he shafted me faster than than he would his dog. Get it in writing for that much money, notarized.
Edited by Oldtrader3 (03/12/12 01:42 AM)
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#5516965 - 03/12/12 06:15 AM
Re: 1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
[Re: Oldtrader3]
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coinman_23885
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.
Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 4881
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Supertooth-Thank you for your knowledge. If the coin comes back from PCGS as not genuine I can return it as the purchase is covered by EBay buyer protection. And their is no time limit on that, the coin was listed by a trusted seller and stated as guaranteed genuine. So to further answer my question you are NOT 100% certain the coin is counterfeit. I'm 100% sure that the coin is not genuine. With this said, if you decide to submit it, you need to submit the coin as soon as it reaches you. I also recommend that you elect the Express service either here ($60 + shipping both ways) or at PCGS ($50 + shipping both ways) to guarantee that you have enough time to file a PayPal/eBay claim. It is my understanding that you have 30 days to file such a claim, but you should verify this for yourself. Good luck. Just be cautious about informal guarantees of take back policies if it does not grade. I had an ex-President of the ANA stiff me on a MS64 high relief Peace dollar on his personal guarantee which was phony as a three dollar bill. It took the requested 5 weeks to get a grade from PCGS and he said it was too long, so get lost, he won't honor it. This was a dealer whom I had given thousands of dollars of business to for cash and he shafted me faster than than he would his dog. Get it in writing for that much money, notarized.
Writing is nice; however, the guarantee might not be worth the paper it is written on. Sure you might have a contract, but unless you have viable means to enforce that contract, then you are pretty much out of luck. The original poster probably doesn't have enough knowledge of the law (few do outside of lawyers) to successfully pursue a claim in civil court and the attorney's fees and litigation fees may be more than the total purchase price (and no attorney in their right mind would take a $5k contingency fee case on something like this). Even if you secure a judgment against the seller, this is only half of the battle. You must then enforce the judgment which can often be difficult. The seller may not have any traceable assets that you can seize, and many people are what I call "turnips" because they are essentially judgment proof (remember the saying that you cannot get blood out of a turnip). Even if you do, it could take you a long time to recover as you must initiate other proceedings/court filings (and more $$$$) to place liens or other attachments or to force the sale of the debtor's property. This is the point that is often overlooked by people on the boards: not only must you have a cause of action, but you must have a means of enforcing any judgment.
Bottom line: if you want to have a means to reverse the transaction, you have no option but to act now and within the time frame for doing a eBay/PayPal claim or a charge back (if you were wise enough to purchase the coin with a credit card). I know you are probably tired of hearing me saying this (and this will be the last time I say this), but the time to act is NOW. If you don't, you will incur a large financial loss.
_________________________
-Kenny
Areas of Interest: Original classic gold coins from the Southern mints (New Orleans, Charlotte, and Dahlonega); Carson City minted Morgan Dollars, early copper; high end, quality U.S. type coinage; proof like and deep mirror prooflike coinage; toners including Peace Dollars and classic gold; and cameo and deep/ultra cameo proof coins from 1936-1942.
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#5517675 - 03/12/12 01:24 PM
Re: 1921D Walking Liberty Half What Grade Is It?
[Re: Coincrazed74]
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darrincraig1984
Hobbyist
Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 45
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I am taking it to the only ANA dealer I have here locally just to get an opinion. Depending on what he says I will travel up to Spokane and get another opinion of the coin, or return it to the seller. Thanks everyone for your help.
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