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#5464421 - 02/20/12 11:20 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: Boba]
DiceX Offline

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 Originally Posted By: Bob-a-loo
 Originally Posted By: Makmorn
Ah yes, the great days of stat cameras, rapidographs, and screens. Thanks for reminding me how old I am
Nothing quite like the bright light of a stat camera when you have a hangover.
I miss them at times, not a lot, but a little, I was never a stripper, my folks wouldn't allow that.


I hope you realize how difficult it was for me to resist posting an inapproriate picture.



Of course stripper refers to stripping film to burn printing plates.
It was always fun telling people I did shipping for a living.
But I'm dating myself

But seriously guys, this has been a great thread to follow - very informative and thought-provoking.


Strippers from the good old days, represent.
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#5464796 - 02/21/12 07:23 AM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: DiceX]
Makmorn Offline
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Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 2059
Loc: Central Florida
I agree that Warren was a bit of a showman, but I don't think that he would mention special staples and special paper in a reward flyer if it were not true.
Why mention them at all, the first print had neither.


Riddle me this, say you want to counterfiet something, wouldn't you use the same or similar grade paper, the same type of staples, and the same print quality? When people counterfiet money they use the same grade of paper (the good counterfieters do) and no one uses a higher grade of paper. They definately try to make it as close to the original as possible.

The second print is the exact opposite of all the rules of counterfieting, and actually follows what someone would do to prevent counterfieting. Blue staples? really? I guess that's all the printer had in stock.
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#5465855 - 02/21/12 04:37 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: Makmorn]
DDS Offline
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Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 164
I'm going to have this issue at the Buckeye Comic Con in Columbus, Ohio on March 4th. Anyone who would like to take a look at it there, just PM me. Obviously, I want to minimize the handling of the book but I would like some in-hand opinions.

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#5476703 - 02/25/12 07:05 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: Boba]
RedRaven Offline

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 Originally Posted By: Bob-a-loo
 Originally Posted By: RedRaven

What is 'line repro printing'?
I googeld the term but couldn't find a good explanation.


I used to do this kind of work, back in the day when I was a stripper \:o

"line repro printing" uses line art, i.e. art that is converted into lines or dots with no actual continuous tones or "grays".

This was done using a graphics (or stat) camera, whereby art could be photographed and converted into line-art using film with special screens overlaid that converted the resultant image into line art - hence the term line repro printing.


Thanks Bob-a-loo.
The process makes sense now.

From wiki...

A stat camera is a large-format vertical or horizontal stationary camera used to shoot film from camera-ready artwork. This is a large bellows-type camera which consists of the copy-board, bellows and lens, and filmboard. The vertical type can take up relatively little space, while the horizontal fills two rooms; bellows, lens, and copyboard on one side of the wall; filmboard and darkroom on the other. The type of film used is black and white "orthochromatic"; i.e., it is more sensitive to some colors than others. Guidelines, or "keylines" are created in light blue which read as white; while anything red or close to a red hue appears as black. The stat camera would be used to shoot color separations (using hue filters for each of the four process colors) and to produce halftone film for printing using a special reticulated gel mask.

While the process of capturing text and images for print is considered[by whom?] obsolete by the appearance of high-end scanners and desktop publishing, the process is still considered more efficient, since the camera itself can zoom in 300% or more and still produce a clear and clean image. There is no high-end scanner or digital camera on the market that can accomplish this goal without creating pixelization problems, or the expensive hardware to go with it. Therefore the majority of printing is text computer generated, and only then considered obsolete.[citation needed]

This process is invaluable to direct preservation of artwork, since the digital camera mimics lighting settings, and there is no scanner big enough to compass such works.



Attachments
122887.jpg
Description:

122888.jpg
Description:




Edited by RedRaven (02/26/12 07:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Added two images of stat cameras for reference

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#5476790 - 02/25/12 07:48 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: RedRaven]
DiceX Offline

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Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 40739
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 Originally Posted By: RedRaven
 Originally Posted By: Bob-a-loo
 Originally Posted By: RedRaven

What is 'line repro printing'?
I googeld the term but couldn't find a good explanation.


I used to do this kind of work, back in the day when I was a stripper \:o

"line repro printing" uses line art, i.e. art that is converted into lines or dots with no actual continuous tones or "grays".

This was done using a graphics (or stat) camera, whereby art could be photographed and converted into line-art using film with special screens overlaid that converted the resultant image into line art - hence the term line repro printing.


Thanks Bob-a-loo.
The process makes sense now.

From wiki...

A stat camera is a large-format vertical or horizontal stationary camera used to shoot film from camera-ready artwork. This is a large bellows-type camera which consists of the copy-board, bellows and lens, and filmboard. The vertical type can take up relatively little space, while the horizontal fills two rooms; bellows, lens, and copyboard on one side of the wall; filmboard and darkroom on the other. The type of film used is black and white "orthochromatic"; i.e., it is more sensitive to some colors than others. Guidelines, or "keylines" are created in light blue which read as white; while anything red or close to a red hue appears as black. The stat camera would be used to shoot color separations (using hue filters for each of the four process colors) and to produce halftone film for printing using a special reticulated gel mask.

While the process of capturing text and images for print is considered[by whom?] obsolete by the appearance of high-end scanners and desktop publishing, the process is still considered more efficient, since the camera itself can zoom in 300% or more and still produce a clear and clean image. There is no high-end scanner or digital camera on the market that can accomplish this goal without creating pixelization problems, or the expensive hardware to go with it. Therefore the majority of printing is text computer generated, and only then considered obsolete.[citation needed]

This process is invaluable to direct preservation of artwork, since the digital camera mimics lighting settings, and there is no scanner big enough to compass such works.


I started out learning the stat camera when I began in this industry. I did this for the last several years this method existed until computer technology came along and took over.

You could usually shoot an 80-100 page book in a few hours and you had the rest of the night to work on the tables doing screens, photos and page assembly (the fun stuff).
However, there were nights that we'd get swamped with multiple books and I'd be chained to that huge behemoth of a camera for 12 straight hours.
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#5481083 - 02/27/12 02:22 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: DiceX]
RedRaven Offline

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Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 10957
Loc: Texas Hill Country
DiceX (et al) , regarding Stat Cameras....

So I'm trying to understand the printing process here.
Stat, as I understand it, refers to a photostatic copy.
Xerox etc refers to an electrostatic photocopier (xerography).
Does the phrase 'line reproduction printing' neccesarily preclude electrostatic reproduction and if so what is the primary process of transferring the image to print that is associated with the phrase 'line reproduction printing' , particularly in the context (Stat Camera etc) of how Archie Goodwin used it in reference to Eerie #1.





Edited by RedRaven (02/27/12 02:23 PM)

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#5481143 - 02/27/12 02:40 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: RedRaven]
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This thread rules.
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#5481221 - 02/27/12 03:10 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: Dr. Balls]
comicwiz Offline
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I'm no expert, but the OP's scan looks like a stat-produced issue. I had the pleasure of looking through a pile of stat sheets from Superior Comics many years ago, and it is distinctly different from something that is xeroxed or mimeographed.

The scan posted by Makmorn looks like a mimeographed or xeroxed copy. Xerox copiers (both letter and legal sizes) were out by that time.

Not saying this is anything more than conjecture, but a stat produced issue would be more in line with something originating from a publisher.

The mimeographed or xeroxed copy is something that would be more readily available through libraries or working in an office environment.

The mimeographed or xeroxed copy could very well be the reprint (as defined by OS) if someone internally had access to the original artwork from which to reproduce.

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#5481449 - 02/27/12 04:21 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: DiceX]
Boba Offline
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Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 7935
Loc: New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: DiceX
 Originally Posted By: RedRaven
 Originally Posted By: Bob-a-loo
 Originally Posted By: RedRaven

What is 'line repro printing'?
I googeld the term but couldn't find a good explanation.


I used to do this kind of work, back in the day when I was a stripper \:o

"line repro printing" uses line art, i.e. art that is converted into lines or dots with no actual continuous tones or "grays".

This was done using a graphics (or stat) camera, whereby art could be photographed and converted into line-art using film with special screens overlaid that converted the resultant image into line art - hence the term line repro printing.


Thanks Bob-a-loo.
The process makes sense now.

From wiki...

A stat camera is a large-format vertical or horizontal stationary camera used to shoot film from camera-ready artwork. This is a large bellows-type camera which consists of the copy-board, bellows and lens, and filmboard. The vertical type can take up relatively little space, while the horizontal fills two rooms; bellows, lens, and copyboard on one side of the wall; filmboard and darkroom on the other. The type of film used is black and white "orthochromatic"; i.e., it is more sensitive to some colors than others. Guidelines, or "keylines" are created in light blue which read as white; while anything red or close to a red hue appears as black. The stat camera would be used to shoot color separations (using hue filters for each of the four process colors) and to produce halftone film for printing using a special reticulated gel mask.

While the process of capturing text and images for print is considered[by whom?] obsolete by the appearance of high-end scanners and desktop publishing, the process is still considered more efficient, since the camera itself can zoom in 300% or more and still produce a clear and clean image. There is no high-end scanner or digital camera on the market that can accomplish this goal without creating pixelization problems, or the expensive hardware to go with it. Therefore the majority of printing is text computer generated, and only then considered obsolete.[citation needed]

This process is invaluable to direct preservation of artwork, since the digital camera mimics lighting settings, and there is no scanner big enough to compass such works.


I started out learning the stat camera when I began in this industry. I did this for the last several years this method existed until computer technology came along and took over.

You could usually shoot an 80-100 page book in a few hours and you had the rest of the night to work on the tables doing screens, photos and page assembly (the fun stuff).
However, there were nights that we'd get swamped with multiple books and I'd be chained to that huge behemoth of a camera for 12 straight hours.



I had a stat cameras and I couldn't give it away after digital took over the biz.
There must a stat camera burial grounds somewhere where they went to die
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#5481658 - 02/27/12 05:15 PM Re: Eerie #1 Expert Needed [Re: Boba]
Makmorn Offline
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Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 2059
Loc: Central Florida
My scanner rulez, from now on I will just scan books and email the image to cgc for my grades since it's so much more acurate than having the book in hand.

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