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#5394128 - 01/23/12 12:57 AM PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback
BrokenCompass Offline
Collector


Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 95
There is a lot of buzz on the registry with many people leaving the NGC registry due to NGC's decision to not allow PCGS coins in the registry. I would like to start this post so people on the board are able to offer constructive feedback about the problem to NGC. I am sure NGC is worried about this issue and would consider this feedback.

Here's my opinion....

NGC has allowed PCGS coins in the past, it is way too much of a hazzle for people who have relied on NGC's broad-mindedness. When I first heard that NGC allowed PCGS coins, I was actually felt NGC was confident enough to be the better TPG. It is a big hazzle for people who have relied on NGC's previous policies.

But I do see NGC's problems too. Since they allow PCGS coins, everyone would choose to get their coins graded by PCGS so they can register their coins in both PCGS as well as NGC registries.

I think the best way would be to allow only registry sets with atleast 60% NGC coins as a ranking registry set. Every year this number could be increased by 10%. This number could gradually move up to 90% where it should be allowed to rest. This gives enough time for users to adapt to NGC's strategy change and still allow people having a few PCGS coins to still use their coins in the registry without having to cross over. Win-Win.

I have always considered NGC as the top TPG, I really hope NGC does something about it.
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My goal is to finish collecting every British India 1/4 anna,1/12 anna, 1/2 Pice issued since 1862. Any help with BU British India BU coppers is highly appreciated.






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#5394213 - 01/23/12 05:46 AM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: BrokenCompass]
Chris1976 Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 825
Loc: North Georgia
My thoughts are that if they did do a 10% increase as stated above then NGC would be back in the same boat with people being upset that they have to remove and replace a certian number of coins. If NGC were to adopt the 90% NGC coin to 10% PCGS coin there would still be the same complaints. There really is no win/win to this as there would still be upset members that would threaten to take their business elsewhere. Over and over again in the postings on this forum from those who have been the most verbal (repeating the same statements in 3 or more posts) have basically said the only reason they had their coins in PCGS holders is due to increasing its value. But I feel its mostly due to the idea that they can enter the coins in two different registrys with hopes of being awarded more than once for each set of their coins.

A policy such as this that NGC is implementing will have both negative and positive feedback as no matter what they do, they cant make everyone happy all the time. Unfortunately this type of change would be rough to come to a compramise on as there would be the same complaints no matter which direction they take aside from keeping the older policy in place.

Some members here feel that the same thing will happen to the US coin registry as well, I dont have an issue with that since it is NGC's registry, they are the ones issuing the awards, and it would make sense to me that sets containing NGC certified coins only should be the ones that are eligable for the awards. Otherwise it would be like expecting General Motors to issue an award for best car design to an engineer at Ford.

What NGC could do to ease the pain of some of the registry users that are being affected by this change would be to determine which of the PCGS varieties match up to those that NGC uses and then reduce the registry points listing by a single point for each grade level for PCGS coins. That way those who do have full NGC sets will have earned the chance for the registry award for that category as it should be.

I know others may or may not agree with anything I have said and thats their choice as these are my opinions and not theirs.
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Removed my reason for leaving so others would not feel it was a "grab for attention"

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#5394255 - 01/23/12 07:27 AM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: Chris1976]
nemo656 Offline
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 161
Loc: Planet Earth
SPIN! SPIN! SPIN!

It's all about money period! NGC wants you to crossover your coins if you want to participate in the NGC registry. They could care less about the registry itself and what it COULD be. They talk about making the registry more meaningful and pure, HOGWASH! Be truthful NGC, people can see right though your SPIN!

You want my constructive comment? Eliminate the registry altogether.

You say WHAT? Eliminate the registry? Yes. NGC could save so much money on Bandwidth and employing the people needed to maintain the registry.

WHY? The NGC registry is a joke, and the NGC registry awards are a joke. The NGC registry is simply a collection of certification numbers collected in one place. I've stated this in the past and I'll say it again.

The NGC registry COULD be a useful tool for collectors, that is if it includes PCGS, "AND" and this is a big "AND" they required every entry in the registry to have a picture and a description of the coin entered. No picture? If you have no picture you could enter the coin but it will not be eligible for any award or any points.

I ask you, all of you, WHAT IS THE POINT? What's the point of a registry of coins if you can't see or learn anything about them? As it is now the registry is just a huge collection of USELESS information and to top that off NGC gives awards for this USELESS information.

I can not speak about the US side of the registry because I only have Newfoundland coins in my registry sets. I and a tiny handful of others have taken the time to include photos (good photos I might add) and descriptions of Newfoundland registry entries. If you want to learn about Newfoundland coins, if you have never seen a Newfoundland coin, if you want to compare grades of a Newfoundland coin you can find that information in the NGC Newfoundland Registry because of me and a tiny handful of others. (for now that is)

Nothing galls me more that to see NGC give a top honors award to a Newfoundland registry set that contains NOT ONE PHOTO or DESCRIPTION. Again, WHATS THE POINT? Those sets are simply a collection of certification numbers, and a total waste of space in the registry.

I also said this in another thread, if NGC goes through with the removal of PCGS coins from the registry I will pull all my Newfoundland sets and there will be almost NOTHING to see if someone want to research a Newfoundland coin.

The other day after posting the above statement in another thread I did a search of the registry just to back up my claim. I searched for Newfoundland and then looked at how many OTHERS had pictures added to their registry entries. It was sad, very sad. My statement holds true in that area of the registry. I and a tiny handful of others have pictures and descriptions. And it will be true, once I pull my sets there will be almost nothing to look at in the Newfoundland series of coins.

Just to be clear I could care less about points and awards I collect my coins for the love of my heritage (My grandpa was born and raised in Newfoundland) for the love of history and numismatics. I love the coin not the holder.

So I don't know if this post could be called constructive criticism or not but I thought I would share my feelings again.

Thanks
Have a great day
Jim

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#5394388 - 01/23/12 09:43 AM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: nemo656]
JCM-Houston Offline
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 273
Loc: Houston, TX
 Quote:
Over and over again in the postings on this forum from those who have been the most verbal (repeating the same statements in 3 or more posts) have basically said the only reason they had their coins in PCGS holders is due to increasing its value.


In my case about 90% of my coins were in NGC holders. I was a paid member only at NGC and gave them all my slabbing business whcih ranged from 10-35 coins per year. I never had any sets in the PCGS registry. I had just submitted 6 coins for world standard and 6 coins for world economy grading at the NYINC show, and have another 14 or so (another mixed standard and economy group) that will be ready to go for grading in February.

The reason that I selected NGC was that I collect coins and not plastic. NGC was good enough to allow the few PCGS coins I had into the registry and not try to force me to pay for crossing like PCGS does. Because of this, and what I percieved as a better relationship with customers, I chose to give them my money rather than PCGS.

Even though it's only about 10% of my slabed coins, and in some cases only 1 coin in a completed set, it's about principle. In December they took my money for another years membership, in early January they took my money for another submission, then they change the rules.

No consultation or discussions with their customers, just do it my way or hit the highway. At least on the PCGS side you always knew they were arrogant, it was part of their marketing spiel.

As stated by others, it's their site and they can do what they want. But it's my money and I can vote with my wallet, my wallet chooses not to reward companies that treat their customers like this.


Edited by JCM-Houston (01/23/12 09:45 AM)
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#5394676 - 01/23/12 11:30 AM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: JCM-Houston]
Schatzy Offline
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.


Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 4440
 Originally Posted By: JCM-Houston

The reason that I selected NGC was that I collect coins and not plastic.

In December they took my money for another years membership, in early January they took my money for another submission, then they change the rules.



You still have the coins so I don't see the problem.
How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?

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#5394696 - 01/23/12 11:39 AM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: Schatzy]
TwoKopeiki Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 515
 Originally Posted By: Schatzy


You still have the coins so I don't see the problem.
How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?



Because NGC is a business and decisions like these take time to develop. Afterall, this idea would need to have a benefit statement, perhaps even a business case that would outline potential revenue increase and take in consideration revenue loss due to some attrition.

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#5394735 - 01/23/12 12:08 PM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: TwoKopeiki]
gpnyc Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 501
Loc: New York
Why doesn't NGC just offer a steep discount on crossing over PCGS coins for a limited time. Could be limited to coins listed in the NGC registry as of a certain cutoff date (12/31/11?)

This would prove to all that this isn't a money grab... which I don't believe it is, regardless of the baseless assertions being made by many (justifiably) angry posters.

I know this would be a burden on NGC and overall turnaround times will suffer but it seems like the right thing to do and in the long-run NGC will be better off.
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George






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#5394782 - 01/23/12 12:37 PM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: gpnyc]
Schatzy Offline
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.


Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 4440
Here is a statement posted on another thread regarding the topic at hand.

 Originally Posted By: Max Spiegel
There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.



If this change was truly about money they would have hit the us coins also.

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#5394818 - 01/23/12 12:56 PM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: Schatzy]
TwoKopeiki Offline
Collectosaurus Rex


Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 515
 Originally Posted By: Schatzy
Here is a statement posted on another thread regarding the topic at hand.

 Originally Posted By: Max Spiegel
There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.



If this change was truly about money they would have hit the us coins also.



Not necessarily. As I've mentioned before, there are always two sides of the ledger. The loss in revenue from world collectors that will no longer use the registry or even NGC services altogether is probably not that great and incremental revenue from cross-overs and long-term business probably easily makes it worth it. I don't have access to NGC data to say either way, but it might be a different picture when it comes to US coins.

My primary concern was not that it was done at all, since it actually might make sense for the company in the long run, but how it was done .




Edited by TwoKopeiki (01/23/12 12:56 PM)

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#5395018 - 01/23/12 02:38 PM Re: PCGS Coin Removal : Constructive Feedback [Re: TwoKopeiki]
JCM-Houston Offline
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 273
Loc: Houston, TX
 Quote:
How do you know that they were even thinking of changing the world registry in December?


I'm just guessing they would not make such a major decision to the registry without considerable internal discussion, but of course I could be wrong. Maybe someone just woke up last week and sent out the notice.
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