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#5727730 - 05/30/12 12:27 AM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: Terry Doyle]
adamstrange Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Terry Doyle
 Originally Posted By: Rip
 Originally Posted By: Terry Doyle
 Originally Posted By: Bronty
I don't know what could be misunderstood about lifting panels almost line for line.



You beat me to it . . .


See my post #5687804 on page 26 for starters.

 Originally Posted By: Rip
Maybe this will help guide some people to the progression of gamesmanship and running dialog at hand within the found object, popular culture, and banality.

Wikipedia actually does a decent job here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Duchamp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_objects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hamilton_%28artist%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Art
"Pop art is aimed to employ images of popular as opposed to elitist culture in art, emphasizing the banal or kitschy elements of any given culture, most often through the use of irony. It is also associated with the artists' use of mechanical means of reproduction or rendering techniques."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Lichtenstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Koons


Already seen all that stuff, thanks.


But have you seen these works?

 Quote:
London's Hayward Gallery will gather together 50 ''invisible'' works by leading figures such as Andy Warhol, Yves Klein and Yoko Ono for its display of works you cannot actually see.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/cultu...isible-art.html
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#5727772 - 05/30/12 12:44 AM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: comicartcom]
Bronty Offline

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 Originally Posted By: comicartcom
 Originally Posted By: Bronty
From my view on the sidelines, I think the fine art market has become so much about the sizzle that having a good eye for steak won't help much.


bronty.. this is a very one dimensional interpretation of gallery art.


Rich, the discussion was in the context of putting together a Stein-like collection. A massively valuable and important collection. In that context, there is no need for me to address the $1500 paintings of orchids by the elementary-school-teacher-by-day-artist-by-night down the street. Or even just the paintings of a competent journeyman.

I so absolutely agree that most art is very affordable. Most competent artists have difficulty selling their work for any kind of decent sum.


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#5727916 - 05/30/12 02:44 AM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: Bronty]
glendgold Offline
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Registered: 06/28/06
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I just saw the Cone Sisters show in Vancouver. I was more intrigued by their Picassos than their Matisses, in part because of something the show itself emphasized - how the sisters, with their backgrounds in fabric, seem to have made Matisse aware of design. The result is that the paintings as displayed had less emotional currency and were more about, well, design -- at least to my eye. I liked his black and white stuff better. And I do love those sisters.

Also: Herb and Dorothy Vogel. They managed a pretty decent collection. But I suppose that was 50 years ago now, right?
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#5728107 - 05/30/12 08:29 AM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: glendgold]
delekkerste Offline

James Bond wears a Rolex...the rest is just product placement.

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 Originally Posted By: ledocq
Also: Herb and Dorothy Vogel. They managed a pretty decent collection. But I suppose that was 50 years ago now, right?


\(thumbs u

I had the Vogels in the back of my mind as well - they certainly did well considering their very limited budget, though I recall from the documentary that their collection, though it had many top names in it, was notable more for its breadth and quantity than the presence of many (any?) top-tier examples. It's notable that the Vogels and the Steins both befriended a number of the artists they collected, which I imagine would be less common these days and would exacerbate the access problem, relatively speaking. I guess the short answer to my original question is that you would need a much bigger budget to achieve something comparable today (though, judging from what people are spending on comic art these days, there are number of OA collectors who probably have the budgets to make a real go of it!) For example, even if you recognized that Richard Prince's "Nurse" paintings were going to explode into the millions and become some of the most recognizable art of the decade when they came out in 2003 (and were largely shunned initially by collectors), you still would have needed to be able to afford the $50K+ asking prices - no postman (like Herb Vogel) would be able to do that these days.

I didn't realize that there was a Cone sisters show going on simulaneously with the Steins show - I would imagine the exhibition you saw highlighted the relationship between the Steins and the Cones (just as the exhibition at the Met did), with the former having introduced the latter to Picasso and Matisse and sold them a good number of pieces as well.
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#5728888 - 05/30/12 03:41 PM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: tth2]
comicartcom Offline
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Posts: 2015
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 Originally Posted By: tth2
I just meant that Gene keeps expressing appreciation for modern art in general, not just Lichtenstein, when it seems clear that many of the people who tend to respond to this thread apparently don't like most modern art.


oh yes this is correct. Gene as well as myself is very impressed with modern art, the pop-art movement and other aspects of the art field and comic art fans do not have this interest, which to me is rather surprising considering that comic art is a modern art form and should lead to an interest in other forms of art. Due to this anomoly, I find it surprising how dismissive many comic art fans are of modern art forms and in particular the dismissiveness of Lichtenstein's iconography.

as I have said earlier.. the comic art form and the history of comics show that comic art is one of the most derivitive of all art forms and the concept that comic art as a whole is akin to fine art is a ridiculous concept.
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#5728894 - 05/30/12 03:44 PM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: Bronty]
comicartcom Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Bronty
 Originally Posted By: comicartcom
 Originally Posted By: Bronty
From my view on the sidelines, I think the fine art market has become so much about the sizzle that having a good eye for steak won't help much.


bronty.. this is a very one dimensional interpretation of gallery art.


Rich, the discussion was in the context of putting together a Stein-like collection. A massively valuable and important collection. In that context, there is no need for me to address the $1500 paintings of orchids by the elementary-school-teacher-by-day-artist-by-night down the street. Or even just the paintings of a competent journeyman.

I so absolutely agree that most art is very affordable. Most competent artists have difficulty selling their work for any kind of decent sum.


well Bronty, remember that much of the art in the Stein collection was described as "deviant art" by art critics of the time and many of these paintings sold for peanuts at time of acquisition. The Steins collected what they liked and not neccessarily what would be more valued down the road and you can be sure they have loads of art in the "back of the house" that will never get displayed because they are not name artists. Few serious collectors of their caliber only wound up with the winners. They collected along the entire breadth of their hobby, which results no doubt in many losers as well as big time winners.


Edited by comicartcom (05/30/12 03:45 PM)
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#5728930 - 05/30/12 04:00 PM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: comicartcom]
Bronty Offline

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that's a very good point, although the world has changed and I'm not sure the same thing can be done today that was done all that time ago - for the reasons stated... price/access, etc.
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#5728967 - 05/30/12 04:17 PM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: Bronty]
comicartcom Offline
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Posts: 2015
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 Originally Posted By: Bronty
that's a very good point, although the world has changed and I'm not sure the same thing can be done today that was done all that time ago - for the reasons stated... price/access, etc.


it can indeed.. money & pricing is a relative thing. Who says the equivalent of yesterday's Picasso or Degas isn't currently selling his/her paintings at the Arts Factory* right now for $1500?

*Arts Factory is a conglomeration of artists selling their own work from rooms in a large warehouse that has been converted into a showcase. They are right next to Jack Solomon's S2 Art here in Las Vegas and once a month they host a big party. The vast majority of the art sold here is fairly inexpensive and covers a broad swath of interests. I'm sure a similar setup exists in most, if not all big cities
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#5728996 - 05/30/12 04:38 PM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: comicartcom]
Rip Offline
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As a graphic designer I thought this was kind of an interesting article.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/20...-art-world.html

As to original art and getting choice pieces. Who you know and how you spend your money with them means quite a bit.

Although it seems the stuff tends to be a little more scattered these days. The impersonal nature of dealing through E-bay, auction houses and the internet in general can have a frustrating effect on networking.

I don't know about you, but I don't spend hours on the phone like I used to.
(Although this year its picked up a lot)

Scott


Edited by Rip (05/30/12 04:47 PM)
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#5738802 - 06/03/12 02:36 PM Re: Lichtenstein Comic Inspired Art Estimated at $35-45 Million [Re: adamstrange]
Terry Doyle Offline
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Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 2778
Loc: England, United Kingdom
 Originally Posted By: adamstrange
 Originally Posted By: Terry Doyle
 Originally Posted By: Rip
 Originally Posted By: Terry Doyle
 Originally Posted By: Bronty
I don't know what could be misunderstood about lifting panels almost line for line.



You beat me to it . . .


See my post #5687804 on page 26 for starters.

 Originally Posted By: Rip
Maybe this will help guide some people to the progression of gamesmanship and running dialog at hand within the found object, popular culture, and banality.

Wikipedia actually does a decent job here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Duchamp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_objects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hamilton_%28artist%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Art
"Pop art is aimed to employ images of popular as opposed to elitist culture in art, emphasizing the banal or kitschy elements of any given culture, most often through the use of irony. It is also associated with the artists' use of mechanical means of reproduction or rendering techniques."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Lichtenstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Koons


Already seen all that stuff, thanks.


But have you seen these works?

 Quote:
London's Hayward Gallery will gather together 50 ''invisible'' works by leading figures such as Andy Warhol, Yves Klein and Yoko Ono for its display of works you cannot actually see.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/cultu...isible-art.html


Oh, yes, I see invisible artworks all the time. Might even have some for sale, if you're interested?

PM off-list for availability and prices . . . currently offering 'buy one, get ten free' deals and will throw-in free shipping.

And if it's Yoko Ono you like (one of the contibutors to the exhibition you highlight), here's a link to her singing:

http://youtu.be/vzKEix4PXBU

Some people, here, might even enjoy this? Whatever floats your boat, I suppose \(shrug\)

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