Daredevil #190 cover

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Miller's tight pencils, Janson inks.

MI

There's more to it than that.

You might think so, but there isn't.

These are Miller's pencils for the DD # 167 cover:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m8cqENlN7Po/TmCgrDZ23gI/AAAAAAAAH3k/ao4tRdBpzdY/s1600/MillerMcLeodDD167cvr.jpg

Embellishment by McLeod.

If these were the kind of tight pencils Miller did around #167, I think that pencils for #190 were even looser. Imho, Janson had a very important role in it.

These are Miller Breakdowns to a splash page for issue #190.

Finished page:

I don't think any of this is going to matter with regards to what it sells for.

This isn't Daredevil #190 CGC 9.9 - it's one of one and if you loved the series and are passionate about Miller DD and always wanted a Miller DD/Elektra cover - this is really it because the #181, etc. aren't coming up for sale (though there are some earlier DD/Elektra covers that are awesome that have still never seen the light of day that I would take over this one).

These are Miller Breakdowns to a splash page for issue #190.

 

 

But doesn't this refer to the interior work on the books after a certain point? I don't remember reading anything about the cover work being done this way.

I don't think we can assume the covers were done the same way the interiors were.

I don't think any of this is going to matter with regards to what it sells for.

 

This isn't Daredevil #190 CGC 9.9 - it's one of one and if you loved the series and are passionate about Miller DD and always wanted a Miller DD/Elektra cover - this is really it because the #181, etc. aren't coming up for sale (though there are some earlier DD/Elektra covers that are awesome that have still never seen the light of day that I would take over this one).

 

I agree that it will sell for what it sells for... but I've always had difficulty accepting this notion, at least in my own collecting of something being 'as good as it gets except for the 10 others locked up elsewhere' sort of situation. I.e. If I'm at a restaurant and I want a steak and am willing to pay $30 for it, but all they have is chicken which is normally $15, I'm not paying $30 for the chicken because its 'as good as it gets' on the menu. Its still chicken. It didn't magically turn into steak because there is no steak to buy.

In other words, taking the 181 cover and burning it won't make me want to pay a 181 price for #190. Am I alone here?

To beat this horse a little further I can understand a small premium for pent up demand but if I can't get the elektra cover I want I'm not going to spend the money on an elektra cover I *don't* want, I'm going to buy a nice adams batman cover or ditko spidey piece or something

According Janson in Back Issue #21, Miller began to draw in "small sheets of paper" from #185 on. This probably means that Janson enlarged them with a photocopy and lightboxed them on the original, which is similar to inking over a blue print.

Summarizing, Miller didn't touch any art from #185 on.

Does it include the covers? Who knows, but imho, I think that this is a key factor and if this is the case, this should reflect on the price.

I don't think any of this is going to matter with regards to what it sells for.

 

This isn't Daredevil #190 CGC 9.9 - it's one of one and if you loved the series and are passionate about Miller DD and always wanted a Miller DD/Elektra cover - this is really it because the #181, etc. aren't coming up for sale (though there are some earlier DD/Elektra covers that are awesome that have still never seen the light of day that I would take over this one).

 

 

I agree that it will sell for what it sells for... but I've always had difficulty accepting this notion, at least in my own collecting of something being 'as good as it gets except for the 10 others locked up elsewhere' sort of situation. I.e. If I'm at a restaurant and I want a steak and am willing to pay $30 for it, but all they have is chicken which is normally $15, I'm not paying $30 for the chicken because its 'as good as it gets' on the menu. Its still chicken. It didn't magically turn into steak because there is no steak to buy.

Reading through this thread my gut reaction seems about right. this is a cool, but weird piece. Late in the run, two boards... who knows what it will sell for. Of course, that's the fun of this kind of thing.

I don't think any of this is going to matter with regards to what it sells for.

 

This isn't Daredevil #190 CGC 9.9 - it's one of one and if you loved the series and are passionate about Miller DD and always wanted a Miller DD/Elektra cover - this is really it because the #181, etc. aren't coming up for sale (though there are some earlier DD/Elektra covers that are awesome that have still never seen the light of day that I would take over this one).

 

 

I agree that it will sell for what it sells for... but I've always had difficulty accepting this notion, at least in my own collecting of something being 'as good as it gets except for the 10 others locked up elsewhere' sort of situation. I.e. If I'm at a restaurant and I want a steak and am willing to pay $30 for it, but all they have is chicken which is normally $15, I'm not paying $30 for the chicken because its 'as good as it gets' on the menu. Its still chicken. It didn't magically turn into steak because there is no steak to buy.

 

In other words, taking the 181 cover and burning it won't make me want to pay a 181 price for #190. Am I alone here?

 

To beat this horse a little further I can understand a small premium for pent up demand but if I can't get the elektra cover I want I'm not going to spend the money on an elektra cover I *don't* want, I'm going to buy a nice adams batman cover or ditko spidey piece or something

This way of thinking really depends on the collector. Some will agree with you and some will pay $30 for the chicken and be happy. Then again, some will pay $30 for the chicken and then feel bad after they've eaten it and wish that they would have gone somewhere else.

These are Miller Breakdowns to a splash page for issue #190.

 

 

 

But doesn't this refer to the interior work on the books after a certain point? I don't remember reading anything about the cover work being done this way.

 

I don't think we can assume the covers were done the same way the interiors were.

I used to think that until I reread that BackIssue #21. Janson, in that DD article, describes what techniques he used to get the desired look/mood for the book. Using two pieces of comic board and ink wash sounds like something he would do. Not saying this isn't a Miller piece, I'm just saying.

Then again, some will pay $30 for the chicken and then feel bad after they've eaten it and wish that they would have gone somewhere else.

I agree that it will sell for what it sells for... but I've always had difficulty accepting this notion, at least in my own collecting of something being 'as good as it gets except for the 10 others locked up elsewhere' sort of situation. I.e. If I'm at a restaurant and I want a steak and am willing to pay $30 for it, but all they have is chicken which is normally $15, I'm not paying $30 for the chicken because its 'as good as it gets' on the menu. Its still chicken. It didn't magically turn into steak because there is no steak to buy.

 

In other words, taking the 181 cover and burning it won't make me want to pay a 181 price for #190. Am I alone here?

 

To beat this horse a little further I can understand a small premium for pent up demand but if I can't get the elektra cover I want I'm not going to spend the money on an elektra cover I *don't* want, I'm going to buy a nice adams batman cover or ditko spidey piece or something

I could not agree more with you. B+/A- quality examples often sell for A-quality prices simply because that is what is available, as most of the true A/A+ quality pieces have long since found their way into black hole collections or have simply not resurfaced. Personally, I would prefer to, as you suggested, buy other material that I like instead (particularly in the illustration art world, where more of the A/A+ pieces are still available). Or, alternatively, I would prefer to wait on the sidelines until the pieces I really want eventually become available rather than paying up for something just because it's the best that's currently on offer. If these pieces never become available, I've decided I can live with that possibility more than I can live with overpaying for something I'm not completely happy with - but, to each his own.

Steak lovers unite

Where's the beef???

These are Miller Breakdowns to a splash page for issue #190.

 

 

 

But doesn't this refer to the interior work on the books after a certain point? I don't remember reading anything about the cover work being done this way.

 

I don't think we can assume the covers were done the same way the interiors were.

The DD 188 cover, for example, is only signed 'FM' and not 'Miller/Janson.' So it would appear Miller still did have an interest in executing the actual drawing of covers, even post-185

I met Miller when he was done with the run, and he mentioned he "was putting his heart into the covers right up to the end of the run, but he had admittedly lulled a bit on working the interiors", now while that's not a specific point he's making about this cover, it did speak volumes to me (and the other fans I was with). This was something he made a VERY serious point to make to me as I had just criticized his cover work on DD #187 as being "not as good as some of the others".

As for the "quality" of the image on this cover, in my eyes it's one of the better ones. A HUGE image of DD and a very cool Elektra? Yes please.

I personally think that 168, 181, and 190 are the 3 most "important/historic" issues of the run, and the 3 best covers of the run are 179, 181, and 190. (This is a subjective opinion of course, but those were the ones that really made me go "WOAH!" when I saw 'em on the spinner rack...). After Elektra died, I don't think there was anyone alive that didn't consider #190 a "must read" issue of the time (and Marvel obviously agreed as seen by the $1.00 cover price...those greedy bastirds!)

Do I care if it's on 2 boards? Hell no, it is what it is...that's just how a color-hold cover is produced...fact is, unlike most instances, this time the hand-drawn art is all THERE.

Would I rather see it be just the DD image with a stat, and no sign of the actual hand-drawn Elektra board?!?! As it is, it displays nice with the stat overlay as well.

If it bothers the new owner, he can take it to a restorer who will razor the Elektra figure and merge them on 1 board (yes, I've actually seen this done on a piece or two).

As for steak, in my eyes this cover is a lovely porterhouse...certainly not a cover I'd consider a poor substitute for a "better" one...I can think of a LOT of crappy covers in that run, but this sure isn't one of 'em...

As for the "quality" of the image on this cover, in my eyes it's one of the better ones. A HUGE image of DD and a very cool Elektra? Yes please.

I personally think that 168, 181, and 190 are the 3 most "important/historic" issues of the run, and the 3 best covers of the run are 179, 181, and 190. (This is a subjective opinion of course, but those were the ones that really made me go "WOAH!" when I saw 'em on the spinner rack...). After Elektra died, I don't think there was anyone alive that didn't consider #190 a "must read" issue of the time (and Marvel obviously agreed as seen by the $1.00 cover price...those greedy bastirds!)

It's all somewhat subjective, of course, but, of the covers that feature Elektra, I would rank #181, #174, #175, #168 and #176 all ahead of #190 for sure. #179 is a decent Elektra cover, though it doesn't feature DD or a full figure of Elektra, so that's a bit of a drawback for me. I'm not as keen on #190 either as the DD image is only a headshot and Elektra is totally blacked out in shadow and you can't see her face (which is also why I would probably rather have #174 or #175 more than the obviously more significant #168). While the 2-board factor would not be a dealbreaker for me, I think everyone will acknowledge that it would be preferable if it were on one board. None of that may matter to someone who is more focused on the key issue/historic/nostalgia aspect of the #190 cover, but, to me, I think some of the other covers offer more in the way of the actual artwork.

Artistically, I think the #188 cover is actually quite impressive as well; it and #191 give early hints at Miller's style to come.

So, as far as Miller DD/Elektra covers go, IMO:

#181 - Filet Mignon (A+)

#168, #174, #175 - Porterhouse (A)

#176 - NY Strip (A-)

#179, #190 - Rib Eye (B+)

But, don't get me wrong - Rib Eye prepared by Miller is still tastier than Filet prepared by many other artists.

" it is what it is..."

Thank you for reminding me of #2 on my list of notions I refuse to follow.

Logically then, it doesn't matter what the cover looks like in real life.. The fact that its the published cover is the only relevant factor. Meaning if this cover were 4 by 6 inches, ragged, torn, on two boards, sunfaded, then hand colored, and then finally smeared with a pound of dog feces it would still be the 190 cover and therefore worth no more or less than were it full sized with no significant issues.

"You want medium rare and you're willing to pay full price for it? I'm sorry sir, we only prepare steaks well done here. Sorry sir, your dinner is what it is. What's in the bernaise sauce? Why, dog excrement of course."

IMO "notion #2" as I will call it is a logical fallacy and while yes they are not (printed) comics and condition and presentation issues are much less of a concern, let's not pretend they are of zero concern. Colored B&W pieces regularly sell for less and I imagine dog excrement would command no premium either.

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As for which cover is which cut of steak, I'll take the salmon please (#184 no more mister nice guy)

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In all seriousness I do think the two board issue is definitely a negative factor. Do I think the price would be a bit higher on one board? Absolutely. Will we ever know for sure? Absolutely not.

You know, what's funny is that this cover sold privately over the summer for six figures. So either that deal was undone, or this is an extreme case of buyer's remorse/collector ADD.

If this was bought to flip, then I'm in the "reserve not met" camp.

What's funnier is that although the buyer's identity was never divulged, based on some of the posts in this thread, it's pretty easy to guess who does know.