So according to the latest edition of the OSPG, the most valuable Copper Age book, Gobbledygook 1, is more valuable than any of the top BA keys (at the 9.2 level). So it's fair to say that a book with a print run of what- 50? and has a photo of the TMNTs on the back cover is more valuable than Star Wars 1 (35 cent variant)? Hulk 181? GL 76?
This also appears to be the only instance where the top key from a later age is more valuable than the best key from the age preceding it. Here's the Overstreet ranking from most valuable key/age to least valuable key/age:
1) Golden Age - Action Comics 1 2) Silver Age - Amazing Fantasy 15
(no issue as to 1st and 2nd rankings)
3) Copper Age - Gobbledygook 1 4) Bronze Age - Star Wars 1 (35 cent variant)
#4965211 - 07/27/1109:33 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: bronzejonny]
Gatsby77Gatsby77
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Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 1537
Loc: Washington, DC
On the one hand, I can understand the logic, since Gobbledygook is much rarer than Star Wars $.35, but yeah--I'd wager the collector base for the Star Wars issue is far broader.
That's also bunk because they don't give a value for TMNT # 1. How you can give a list a value for the easier-to-counterfeit of the two and not the other, I don't get.
_________________________
Looking for Excitings, Black Terror 1-2, 7-8, Fighting Yank 2-8, 10-12, and America's Best 7 in raw or slabbed 3.0-7.0.
If I polled 10 collectors who collect keys from all the ages and asked them which book would they rather have in their collection: Hulk 181 or Gobbledygook 1? I'm sure they would go with Wolvie's 1st app.
- I just don't know how an appearance on the back cover of book qualifies as a legitimate 1st app. If this is the standard, then would Action Comics 1 be the 1st app. of Superman (which it is of course- not the advertisement that preceded it)?
But it's based on supply and demand. If Gobbledygook #1 was as common as Hulk #181, the Hulk #181 would win hands down. It is the tremendous scarcity of the GG that brings it up to that level, AND it is tied to the single most important book of the entire Copper age. It is at just that right level of scarce and in demand that it carries that value. If there were only 10, it would essentially be uncollectable, and probably wouldn't be as valuable (strange, but true.)
I have never thought Gobbledygook should get the dollars it does, but the market doesn't agree.
_________________________ Be a better person today than you were yesterday. Strive. Love someone who doesn't love you.
We're far more likely to shoot each other in duels than we are to engage in some monolithic front determining the course of the board.
#4968981 - 07/29/1112:45 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: RockMyAmadeus]
Gatsby77Gatsby77
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?
Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 1537
Loc: Washington, DC
Good point that with "only 10," it might as well be uncollectible.
I like the Superman Bradman comic, but with only 30 copies out there, I don't think it will ever be widely-known enough to show stable long-term growth.
Rather, the each successive sale within a short period of time will likely go down as the former sale takes a bidder out of the equation. See also Bloodshot 0 platinum.
With the Bradman, a CGC 8.0 sold on eBay for $2,000. then a CGC 9.6 shows up less than a year later and sells for only $2,600.
Personally, I think TMNT # 1 is the biggest book of the 1980s, while the Gobbledygooks are curiosities. Same reason that Star Wars 1 ($.35) will likely always outstrip Iron Fist 14 ($.35) in value--there are what, only 50 known copies of the Iron Fist book vs. hundreds of the Star Wars 1?
_________________________
Looking for Excitings, Black Terror 1-2, 7-8, Fighting Yank 2-8, 10-12, and America's Best 7 in raw or slabbed 3.0-7.0.
There is a tipping point in the balance between absolute scarcity and demand. It's not the same for every book (or other collectibles), but it's somewhere around 10-50 or so examples known.
There are a ton of books that are far more scarce than Action #1, and even with the overwhelming factor of Supes, they still only sell for a tiny fraction of Action #1.
Look at the Maxx ashcans. People give up on collecting them because there are 2-3 of the 12 that are complete stoppers. They just don't appear anywhere for sale, at any price. You can't buy what isn't available.
_________________________ Be a better person today than you were yesterday. Strive. Love someone who doesn't love you.
We're far more likely to shoot each other in duels than we are to engage in some monolithic front determining the course of the board.
Look at the Maxx ashcans. People give up on collecting them because there are 2-3 of the 12 that are complete stoppers. They just don't appear anywhere for sale, at any price. You can't buy what isn't available.
Sure I can! 2/3 of the Maxx Black ashcans are available right now on ebay from CosmicSupra or ColonicSuture? or something like that. I'm loading my lowball offers right now...
Thanks, buddy. That made my day.
_________________________ Be a better person today than you were yesterday. Strive. Love someone who doesn't love you.
We're far more likely to shoot each other in duels than we are to engage in some monolithic front determining the course of the board.
#4994147 - 08/08/1112:04 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: bronzejonny]
JeffroJeffro Speaking as myself, I don't deserve anything.
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Originally Posted By: bronzejonny
If I polled 10 collectors who collect keys from all the ages and asked them which book would they rather have in their collection: Hulk 181 or Gobbledygook 1? I'm sure they would go with Wolvie's 1st app.
Nope. I'd go with gobbledy so I could sell it, buy a Hulk 181 with the profits and still have some left over.
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#4994206 - 08/08/1112:41 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: Jeffro]
Brian48Brian48
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up
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In this regard, I like what Beckett does for their baseball, football, etc.. annual price guides. If a card is too low in population to really gauge a value, they simply say no data is available due to scarcity, however they may add a footnote if a documented sale took place. They would never count it towards any list of top ten cards or whatever. It's considered an oddball item.
_________________________
. . . . . Yeah, I sort of like early Bronze Age Bats, raw or slabbed. I don't discriminate.
These guys aren't too bad either. Missing just two.
#4994346 - 08/08/1101:58 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: Jeffro]
Bronzed JboneBronzed Jbone
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Originally Posted By: Jeffro
Originally Posted By: bronzejonny
If I polled 10 collectors who collect keys from all the ages and asked them which book would they rather have in their collection: Hulk 181 or Gobbledygook 1? I'm sure they would go with Wolvie's 1st app.
Nope. I'd go with gobbledy so I could sell it, buy a Hulk 181 with the profits and still have some left over.
+1
_________________________
"The virtues of our Members we write upon the sand, their faults are chiseled upon the stone tablets of spite and memory." - Lizards2
For most TMNT fans, this is a grail. not only because of the TMNT 1 ad but also because of the early work by Eastman and Laird. But the biggest reason is there were only 50 made.
For most TMNT fans, this is a grail. not only because of the TMNT 1 ad but also because of the early work by Eastman and Laird. But the biggest reason is there were only 50 made.
Also, keep in mind this (along with Gobbledy #2) was the FIRST published book from Mirage Studios, the company that would create the TMNT that would lead to a worldwide pop culture phenomenon and the number #1 Copper Age book. That's some hefty history there. And while its no Marvel #1 or DC #1, etc. as far as first offerings from publishing houses, it still does have the full outside back cover ad for TMNT #1 (not just some small, inner blurb), features the first appearance of the Fugitoid which was a major character in the TMNT universe (and ties in heavily to early Turtles stories), plus only 50 were made, hand made. Until these last couple years, legit copies were near mythical, and with demand very high for the above reasons (and probably others), it only makes sense it's so highly valued.
#5012442 - 08/15/1103:01 AMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: TMNT]
BrontyBronty You know that guy that shows up an hour early for parties? Yah. I'm him.
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Originally Posted By: TMNT
Originally Posted By: rabidwolf
For most TMNT fans, this is a grail. not only because of the TMNT 1 ad but also because of the early work by Eastman and Laird. But the biggest reason is there were only 50 made.
Also, keep in mind this (along with Gobbledy #2) was the FIRST published book from Mirage Studios
If it doesn't have a cover price, was it intended for sale? If it wasn't intended for sale can we say it was distributed and/or published in the normal way? I love these little books but I think they are more early-career giveaways / promo pieces than published books. Any thoughts?
I'm working on a complete collection of TMNT. I have #1 first print and 3rd...I want all the prints. I have 1-10 missing # 9 and 2nd and 3rd prints of the early issues. The #3 variant may be very hard and expensive but I think It is one that I can still get even with only a 500 print run. Now if I wanted to collect any cameo or appearance of the turtles Gobbledygook would put a halt to it. Even though it is just an ad it is so much more...The first time you saw them in print!!!! It comes down to how complete you want your collection to be.
_________________________
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I hate to bump this but how often do these come up for sale? I'm dying to get my hands on one and have been searching for weeks now.
Good luck.
_________________________
This is my sig.There are many like it but this one is mine. Every collection,from the most valuable Golden age,to the readiest of reading copy Moderns,is assembled with care and thought,and is worthy of respect because of it,if for no other reason.RMA
I'm not a dealer, but as far as I can see.... none of my keys are softening... they're as firm as ever.- jimjum12
I know a guy looking for Gobbledygook 1 for twenty years.
_________________________
This is my sig.There are many like it but this one is mine. Every collection,from the most valuable Golden age,to the readiest of reading copy Moderns,is assembled with care and thought,and is worthy of respect because of it,if for no other reason.RMA
I'm not a dealer, but as far as I can see.... none of my keys are softening... they're as firm as ever.- jimjum12
#5578714 - 04/05/1209:14 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: conditionfreak]
joe_collectorjoe_collector Ok ok. JC Superstar. But only because he martyred his ID.
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Originally Posted By: conditionfreak
Strange. I thought there were no rare bronze or copper comic books. I hear that at least once a week on here.
There is really no such thing as a "rare" mass-produced comic book from any era, and several hundred examples likely exist (100+ confirmed) of even something like Action 1.
The only exception are low-print editions like this (with a print run smaller than the existent copies of Action 1), which are not the same thing as a standard, mass market comic book. I mean, there are those "Museum" moderns that were artificially limited to 1 copy each, but I doubt anyone would trade a AF 15 for one.
#5578935 - 04/05/1210:30 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: conditionfreak]
joe_collectorjoe_collector Ok ok. JC Superstar. But only because he martyred his ID.
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Originally Posted By: conditionfreak
So, youi're saying that there are most likely several hundred copies of each of these around?
Any mass market issue of a popular character should have 100+ copies still existing *somewhere*, but that would naturally not include any esoteric or low-print (for the era) issues. And I'm not sure why you would post something like Romeo Tubbs (unless it was the "Canadian Edition, which is even lamer, since it's lower print), as there are plenty of copies online, including 10 over at Metro alone.
But my main point was comparing any issue from titles like Superman, post-Batman TEC, Batman or Captain Marvel would qualify - stuff people would keep and collect.
#5579012 - 04/05/1210:59 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: joe_collector]
Kevin.JKevin.J
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.
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Originally Posted By: joe_collector
Originally Posted By: conditionfreak
Strange. I thought there were no rare bronze or copper comic books. I hear that at least once a week on here.
There is really no such thing as a "rare" mass-produced comic book from any era, and several hundred examples likely exist (100+ confirmed) of even something like Action 1.
The only exception are low-print editions like this (with a print run smaller than the existent copies of Action 1), which are not the same thing as a standard, mass market comic book. I mean, there are those "Museum" moderns that were artificially limited to 1 copy each, but I doubt anyone would trade a AF 15 for one.
So, Silver Streak Comics was a low print run that no one collects? The above were not mass produced comics and no one (who counts) collects them?
I posted the Romeo Tubbs because you can't find ten of them. Heck, find three. Even two. It is the Canadian issue and is labeled #27 on the cover. It was mass produced. The ones at Metro do not have an issue number on the cover and they are issue #28. Gerber and Overstreet state #27 probably does not exist.
It must be fun when you decide what is a low print non-mass produced without any evidence other than your educated guess. It also must be fun when you decide what is collectible and what is not.
I can't wait to read your next post about how truly clueless I am, and how spot on you are.
I love the use of the words "should" and "somewhere". Hard to disprove those words.
#5579484 - 04/06/1207:08 AMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: conditionfreak]
Gatsby77Gatsby77
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?
Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 1537
Loc: Washington, DC
I haven't checked on the latest link from Heritage's upcoming sale, but all but one of the recent sales (last two years) from Heritage were "autheticated" by Eastman and/or Laird themselves.
That's part of what drove the ridiculous first sale of the 8.5--it was the first verified authentic version sold publicly in years.
And--true to form, once it sold for as much as it did, several other sets came out of the woodwork.
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Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 321
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Originally Posted By: ChadH
Also, how do we know these are legit copies? Haven't their been counterfeit copies around?
I'd be happy to vouch for these books. They belong to Bill Fitts -- the creator of the fabled "The Birds, The Bees, and the Turtles" Adult TMNT book. He is a former Mirage employee. He served as archivist back when the amount of TMNT product being produced warranted the position to exist.
Bill contacted me about how to handle the sale of the books when he recently rediscovered them in his collection. These books were given to him by Kevin.
#5586023 - 04/08/1204:45 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: conditionfreak]
joe_collectorjoe_collector Ok ok. JC Superstar. But only because he martyred his ID.
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Originally Posted By: conditionfreak
I posted the Romeo Tubbs because you can't find ten of them. Heck, find three. Even two. It is the Canadian issue and is labeled #27 on the cover.
What's next, 35-cent variants of Western/Cartoon books. Printing defects?
I am Canadian, and *everything* produced for up here is already a "low print" since it's only about 5-10% of the comparable US edition. Or are you just another dumb American who thinks we all live in igloos and hunt polar bears.
I posted the Romeo Tubbs because you can't find ten of them. Heck, find three. Even two. It is the Canadian issue and is labeled #27 on the cover.
What's next, 35-cent variants of Western/Cartoon books. Printing defects?
I am Canadian, and *everything* produced for up here is already a "low print" since it's only about 5-10% of the comparable US edition. Or are you just another dumb American who thinks we all live in igloos and hunt polar bears.
Ah, you're Canadian. That explains a lot.
We were having a discussion about an assertion you made. Then I posted several pics of several books, and you clung onto one of them as somehow showing you were right and I was wrong. Totally ignoring the other books, such as Silver Streak #NN. Which there are NOT several hundred copies of "somewhere". Then I challenged you to find two more copies of the Romeo Tubbs #27, and you tried for days, and failed to do that. Then you decided to insinuate I am a dumb American and that most Americans are. Just because I shattered your "assertion" all to hell.
So....I have a few questions for you.
I've always wanted to know this.
Do you have a Queen? King? Princess or three? Prince or two? (serious questions)
#5587337 - 04/09/1210:47 AMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: conditionfreak]
joe_collectorjoe_collector Ok ok. JC Superstar. But only because he martyred his ID.
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 34993
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Originally Posted By: conditionfreak
Ah, you're Canadian. That explains a lot.
Yes, it easily lets me see through your idiotic assertion that a low-print Canadian version/variant is somehow the same as a "mas produced" US comic.
Seriously, I could produce scans of price variants, error covers, overseas issues, etc. that probably don't have more than 5 existing copies (if that), but again, what does that prove when I have stated over and over and over that I am referring to MASS PRODUCED comics, no low-print variants or country-specific versions with minuscule print runs.
For an example, try finding even 5 of these. I guess by your illogiic, that means BA is far, far, far rarer than GA, right?
You are the one who stated that there "should" be several hundred copies around, of comics from every era, "somewhere".
So, find several hundred copies of the "other" books I scanned. Try Buck Rogers #1. Could there have been a more mass produced comic book of that era and of as popular a character?
You made an asseertion that sounded good when you made it. But is totally wrong. Find 50 copies of Silvr Streak #NN. Another popular and mass produced "American" comic book in its era.
You are wrong. You know you are wrong. Yet, you try to justify your assertion that comic books from every era "should" exist in the several hundreds, "somewhere".
It was a dumb assertion and statement that you wish you had not made. I understand.
Show me forty Buck Rogers #1's or forty TNT Comics #1's. Or forty Silver Streak #1's. Heck, show me half those numbers, "somewhere".
You won't. You can't.
There is a reason Ernest Gerber has scarcity #'s 10, 9 and 8. Not all are correct, but most are. Blows your hypothesis out of the water.
There are obviously comics of all era's that are rare. Some extremely rare. Wake up and smell the coffee. You can't make an assertion then back track and add caveats to the original statement, and not expect to be challenged to prove your case. You said this,
"There is really no such thing as a "rare" mass-produced comic book from any era, and several hundred examples likely exist (100+ confirmed) of even something like Action 1.
The only exception are low-print editions like this (with a print run smaller than the existent copies of Action 1), which are not the same thing as a standard, mass market comic book. I mean, there are those "Museum" moderns that were artificially limited to 1 copy each, but I doubt anyone would trade a AF 15 for one."
Was Buck Rogers a mass produced comic book of a popular character, in 1940 "America"? Do you really believe there are several hundred Buck Rogers #1's around "somewhere"? I argue it was one of THE most popular comic books of the era.
We were not discussing who would trade what for what. You said every issue of a mass produced comic in "every era", likely exist, in the several hundreds.
#5590549 - 04/10/1204:53 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: conditionfreak]
Gatsby77Gatsby77
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?
Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 1537
Loc: Washington, DC
Thanks for taking this thread off-topic, esp. as you presented books from a totally different era in comics.
To take it back to the OP's question: whether Gobbledygook # 1, an early 1980s book, deserves to be priced in Overstreet's as more valuable than any book from the 1970s.
I'm not sure it shouldn't be.
Fact is, TMNT defined a pop culture generation and crossed over from comics into general pop culture. At least for the kids of that generation, TMNT are far more famous than say...Wolverine.
So I have no problem with their first appearance--in a mere ad--limited to 50 copies, being "worth" more than Hulk 181 and the other '70s price variants (mainly, Star Wars # 1 $.35 and Iron Fist 14 $.35.)
The problem is authentication and, frankly, demand. I'd personally pick TMNT 1 over either of the Gobbledygook issues (and have). Just like I reckon most folks would rather have an Action 1 than a New Adventure 26 or Detective 15.
As for the Copper vs. Bronze debate, TMNT 1 was a book that I knew about and desired long before I started reading X-Men and learned about Giant Size X-Men 1 or Hulk 181.
_________________________
Looking for Excitings, Black Terror 1-2, 7-8, Fighting Yank 2-8, 10-12, and America's Best 7 in raw or slabbed 3.0-7.0.
As someone who collected in the early 80's as a kid, I much more wanted a TMNT 1 or Gobbledygook 1 than Hulk 181.
Hulk 181's were everywhere. Every major store had one or more. The comic store I worked at had many. Heck I've seen a short box full of them. I always thought the book was over priced. Even 10 years ago.
Now TNMT, we had a mid grade copy of TMNT 1 once. It didn't last long.
And Gobbledygook 1 was this mythical book we never saw but only heard about.
Star Wars 35 cent variants are also semi-easy to find in comparison. I've bought 2 4's and a 2 for less than $10.
As we all know, its all about supply and demand. The trick I guess is knowing how long the demand will last.
_________________________
Looking for Giant Comics Editions 12 (Any grade!!)
#5591409 - 04/10/1210:48 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: peterpark]
spracknetch23spracknetch23
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I ran into a Gobbledygook #1 and 2 along with a TMNT #3 error cover at an Ohio convention way back in 1993. They were priced at $50 each. Being 15 at the time, that was way out of my price range. I bought a #3 1st printing (regular) instead. Although I've gotten a #3 error since, that remains the only time I've ever run across the Gobbledygooks.
Its tricky because of the rarity. Both have the potential of firstitis syndrome. Star Wars in high grades (9.2 and up) and Goobbledygook in any grade. While the Gobbledygook got over 10K (Which is what the SW1 9.4 sold for). I doubt it could get that again, unless maybe it was a 9.6 or better copy.
Overall I'd go with SW1 as a safer bet to win in price if we are talking around 8.5-9.4. Where as in 7.5 and below I'd say the Gobbledygook would win out. But its not an easy match up.
Edited by Rip (04/11/1201:27 AM)
_________________________
Looking for Giant Comics Editions 12 (Any grade!!)
Gobbledygook 1 is in my humble opinion, a most interesting key. It's not a variant and it is arguably not the 1st appearance of the TMNT but rather a back cover advertisement. Yet it remains, according to Overstreet and the comic book market, one of the 2 most valuable books of the last 40 years. Perhaps this book is not a key but rather, an "anomal-key," - that is, a book that is a key for reasons other than those that traditionally define a key book (1st app, early crossover, etc.) The reason why this book is sought after- 50 copies of a book that is desired by a large mass of TMNT collectors. Thanks to everyone for making this a most interesting thread.
I would too but there are some people out there that will pay a fortune for this book simply because the TMNTs are advertised on the back cover. It's really an interesting basis for defining this the key book of a comic book age. It's also interesting to see that it was a book that only a very small percentage of people ever had an opportunity to get one. The door was closed before the remaining 99.9% of comic book collectors and readers ever knew it even existed. And the book is more valuable than every BA key with exception to the 35 cent price variant Star Wars 1. Quite an interesting story in my humble opinion.
Or are you just another dumb American who thinks we all live in igloos and hunt polar bears.
Originally Posted By: conditionfreak
Ah, you're Canadian. That explains a lot.
Do you have a Queen? King? Princess or three? Prince or two? (serious questions)
(feel dumb?)
In the name of cross border relations I think we should all just agree to disagree, don't you agree?...or disagree??. Opinions are funny that way...
Keeping on topic, as an avid TMNT collector (recently collecting cgc graded items) I have to say I would sell my igloo and polar bear to get a copy of Gobbledygook #1. I already renounced my Queen, Princess (or three), and jar of peanut butter (Canadian price variant on the red top Kraft kind - pink when north of the arctic circle) to get a CGC TMNT #1 so GG#1 is in my sights (no polar bear joke here as I already mentioned it)...
Edited by pubmonkey (04/16/1205:17 PM) Edit Reason: spell check is in French here!!
#5901496 - 08/04/1207:19 PMRe: Gobbledygook 1: More valuable than the best of Bronze? Really?
[Re: bronzejonny]
Flash105Flash105
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I have an employee who is a closet comic book fan and I always show him my Heritage catalogs. We ew and ah over key books together but when he saw the gobbledygook #1, you would have thought he has seen the risen Savior. He was literally beside himself. He grew up with the Turtles and to him this was the book. So all us 40 somethings have to understand we don't understand.
_________________________
“The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war.”
"A man does not get to write his own epitaph. But if I were to write mine it would say the following: He loved his family, and he loved his troops, and they loved him -- period."
I've seen people go nutty over this book. While it's not a "mainstream" book, it is treated as if it was. This book should not be categorized like a mainstream key. Gobbledygook 1 is a comic book oddity.
That made my day.
