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#4805110 - 05/15/11 06:44 PM Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS
alexanderzlenz Offline
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Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 34
Fairly new to this certified collecting. Can one of you kind folks please tell me the differences between the NGC SMS designation and the PCGS Satin Finish designation?

I have recently started a Circulated Lincoln registry set and I've noticed SMS coins are listed starting in 2005. I like the idea of having various examples of each years Lincolns but am not very familiar with the SMS/Satin Finish definitions.

Thanks for any info!

Alex
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#4805178 - 05/15/11 07:11 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: alexanderzlenz]
cpm9ball Offline

At this point, I feel I should interject something of little importance in the midst of this very educational Q&A.

TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 13550
Loc: South Florida
It means the same thing. It's just that both companies use their own terminology. The Mint began using the satin finish in 2005 expressly for the Uncirculated Mint Sets, but they continued to make business strikes for general circulation that did not have a satin finish. Just within the last year or two, the Mint discontinued using the satin finish on the Mint Sets.

Chris
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#4805208 - 05/15/11 07:27 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: cpm9ball]
alexanderzlenz Offline
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Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 34
I thought it was the same thing, thank you for the clarification.

Started in 2005, and I guess they ended it in 2011 for the registry sets have 2010 SMS coins listed.

This is very helpful for my 2005-2010 cent collecting then.

Appreciate it.
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#4805244 - 05/15/11 07:53 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: alexanderzlenz]
Chris1976 Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 825
Loc: North Georgia
Depends on the grade designation. I have had some "satin finish" quarters in grades such as MS68, MS66, etc in the past that were considered by NGC as standard issued quarters. But I have had others with the "satin finish" labels that NGC considered to be part of an SMS set that carried grades such as SP67, SP68, etc. Examples below

-Chris#2

Mint Set "satin finish" label


SMS set "satin finish" label

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#4805428 - 05/15/11 09:51 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: Chris1976]
cpm9ball Offline

At this point, I feel I should interject something of little importance in the midst of this very educational Q&A.

TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 13550
Loc: South Florida
Chris, the "standard" issue is the business strike. This is completely different from the satin finish. NGC does designate the satin finish on the slab because they are listed separately in the Census.

Chris.
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CHOO CHOO


"THE PERSON WHO CAN LAUGH AT HIMSELF ALWAYS LAUGHS LAST!

Joseph P. Machuga, February 28, 1915 - December 12, 1997
Frances L. Machuga, January 2, 1921 - September 29, 2006
Married: December 6, 1941
I love you, both.

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#4805504 - 05/15/11 10:21 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: cpm9ball]
Chris1976 Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 825
Loc: North Georgia
Thats the point I am making Chris, both of those coins above are "satin finish" its depending on the grade designation of MS or SP that makes the difference in the registry set listings. The MS Satin finish coin pictured above was listed by NGC as a typical business strike coin whereas the SP satin finish coin is considered by NGC to be SMS coins. PCGS did have Satin Finish labels on both business strike and SMS coins for some unknown reason. But its the MS or SP on the holder that determines where NGC will allow it in their registry sets.

-Chris#2
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#4805580 - 05/15/11 10:49 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: Chris1976]
cpm9ball Offline

At this point, I feel I should interject something of little importance in the midst of this very educational Q&A.

TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 13550
Loc: South Florida
 Originally Posted By: Chris1976
Thats the point I am making Chris, both of those coins above are "satin finish" its depending on the grade designation of MS or SP that makes the difference in the registry set listings. The MS Satin finish coin pictured above was listed by NGC as a typical business strike coin whereas the SP satin finish coin is considered by NGC to be SMS coins. PCGS did have Satin Finish labels on both business strike and SMS coins for some unknown reason. But its the MS or SP on the holder that determines where NGC will allow it in their registry sets.

-Chris#2


Okay, Chris, I'll bite. What NGC coin shown above? I see two PCGS slabs, but no NGC slab.

The Regsitry is immaterial. The Census is the most important factor.

Chris
_________________________
CHOO CHOO


"THE PERSON WHO CAN LAUGH AT HIMSELF ALWAYS LAUGHS LAST!

Joseph P. Machuga, February 28, 1915 - December 12, 1997
Frances L. Machuga, January 2, 1921 - September 29, 2006
Married: December 6, 1941
I love you, both.

Top
#4805621 - 05/15/11 11:15 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: cpm9ball]
Chris1976 Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 825
Loc: North Georgia
he was asking if there were a difference in PCGS satin finish coins and the NGC SMS coins. Both of the coins I showed were labeled as satin finish, but only one of those is considered by NGC as the same as their SMS listings. The only satin finish labeled coins that are the same as NGC's SMS sets are the SP or Specimen graded coins, The other one that is MS or Mint State coin is the same as NGC's MS graded business strike coins.

Its not that all the satin finish coins are the SMS coins as you can see above, but instead its those that are graded as SP or Specimen coins that are the same as the SMS listings.

Click on my registry listing in my signature on this posting for the DC and Territory quarters and you will see that all the SMS slots are filled by SP graded coins.

-Chris#2
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#4805651 - 05/15/11 11:39 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: Chris1976]
cpm9ball Offline

At this point, I feel I should interject something of little importance in the midst of this very educational Q&A.

TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 13550
Loc: South Florida
Chris,

You're getting caught up in the differing terminology used by the two companies. There were only two kinds of coins produced by the Philadelphia and Denver Mints during the period 2005-2010. One has the satin finish which was used ONLY in the Uncirculated Mint Sets, and one has the "normal finish" which is used ONLY for circulating business strikes. Irrespective of how each company chooses to classify them (SMS, SF, SP or no designation for the business strike) they will all receive an MS grade if they are in an uncirculated condition.

If you take both of those PCGS coins and submit them in the slabs to NGC for crossover, they will both be classified as MS-SMS coins. So, my answer to the OP still remains the same. There is no difference between the PCGS and NGC satin finish coins.

Chris
_________________________
CHOO CHOO


"THE PERSON WHO CAN LAUGH AT HIMSELF ALWAYS LAUGHS LAST!

Joseph P. Machuga, February 28, 1915 - December 12, 1997
Frances L. Machuga, January 2, 1921 - September 29, 2006
Married: December 6, 1941
I love you, both.

Top
#4805673 - 05/15/11 11:55 PM Re: Noob Question: PCGS Satin Finish vs. NGC SMS [Re: cpm9ball]
Chris1976 Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 825
Loc: North Georgia
Heres the MS Satin finish coin in a non SMS coin slot.


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