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#4293282 - 09/29/10 10:23 AM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: PerryHall]
MarkFeld Offline
Dealer
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 10421
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: PerryHall
The U.S. Mint says all 1964-D peace dollars were melted and none now exists. How is it possible to "COPY" something that doesn't exist? This is not a counterfeit since no real examples exist. This would more properly be called a fantasy coin. There were a few dozen threads concerning this coin on the PCGS coin forums but they were all locked or deleted. Apparently PCGS wants to pretend these coins don't exist or they think by deleting these threads fewer forum members will know about them.
PCGS isn't pretending that the coins don't exist - they probably got tired of the beating of the dead horse, with all of the threads and the bickering that most of them led to. And if they were intent on fewer forum members knowing about it, they would have deleted, rather than locked the thread with more than 900 replies.

Your accusation is baseless and absurd.

And for a couple other posters here - the name is Daniel (not David) Carr.


Edited by MarkFeld (09/29/10 10:43 AM)
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Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

Unless otherwise stated, the opinions I express here are my own.

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#4293296 - 09/29/10 10:28 AM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: James_EarlyUS]
19Lyds Offline
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 903
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: James_EarlyUS
 Originally Posted By: PerryHall
 Originally Posted By: James_EarlyUS
David, please see my previous comment regarding the PVC flip which you use for housing the coins. Being silver, they are assured of reacting negatively with the flips at some point. You are not sealing the flips anyway, so I should think there would be no problem investing just a trivial amount more in flips that are much safer.

I've already transferred mine to a safe mylar flip, and hope others will do the same.


Dan Carr made it perfectly clear in some of the threads ATS that he doesn't use PVC flips and that his flips are safe for coin storage.

For those of us who never go ATS, can you please provide a link?
Here's the original thread which was locked. (Post 324)
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#4293299 - 09/29/10 10:30 AM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: MarkFeld]
bsshog40 Offline
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 16108
Loc: Waskom,TX
 Originally Posted By: MarkFeld


And for a couple other posters here - the name is Daniel (not David) Carr.

OOPPSS Sorry Daniel

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#4293353 - 09/29/10 11:03 AM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: bsshog40]
RWB Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 6742
Maybe it will be #2895301 at Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary.

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#4293421 - 09/29/10 11:37 AM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: RWB]
Dcoin Offline
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 1585
Loc: NYC
I'm late to the party but...

What happens when the next coin maker copies the process except with a 1933 20$? Still a fantasy coin right? How about 1804$ or a 1856 cent?

This kind of coin opens the door to not as scrupulous makers to gain a foothold in the legit coin market. Just my mint produced 2c
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#4293431 - 09/29/10 11:44 AM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: James_EarlyUS]
WoodenJefferson Offline

I have nothing to add or subtract, I am merely here.

TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 18001
Loc: Mach II with my hair on fire!
 Originally Posted By: James_EarlyUS
 Originally Posted By: PerryHall
 Originally Posted By: James_EarlyUS


I've already transferred mine to a safe mylar flip, and hope others will do the same.


Dan Carr made it perfectly clear in some of the threads ATS that he doesn't use PVC flips and that his flips are safe for coin storage.


For those of us who never are not allowed to go ATS, can you please provide a link?


There, I fixed that for ya James ;\)
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#4293476 - 09/29/10 12:12 PM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: Dcoin]
19Lyds Offline
Bid more or post more... tough one...


Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 903
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Dcoin
I'm late to the party but...

What happens when the next coin maker copies the process except with a 1933 20$? Still a fantasy coin right? How about 1804$ or a 1856 cent?

This kind of coin opens the door to not as scrupulous makers to gain a foothold in the legit coin market. Just my mint produced 2c
I guess you are late.

All the coins you mention can be proven to exist and there has never been any question on whether or not they do exist. Some, such as the 1804 and 1856 were restrikes done under questionable authorization but they are still acceptable collectibles.

The entire point being, DCARR is creating a fantsy piece of a coin which does not exist and cannot be "proven" to exist.


Edited by 19Lyds (09/29/10 12:14 PM)
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#4293512 - 09/29/10 12:27 PM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: 19Lyds]
MarkFeld Offline
Dealer
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 10421
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: 19Lyds
 Originally Posted By: Dcoin
I'm late to the party but...

What happens when the next coin maker copies the process except with a 1933 20$? Still a fantasy coin right? How about 1804$ or a 1856 cent?

This kind of coin opens the door to not as scrupulous makers to gain a foothold in the legit coin market. Just my mint produced 2c
I guess you are late.

All the coins you mention can be proven to exist and there has never been any question on whether or not they do exist. Some, such as the 1804 and 1856 were restrikes done under questionable authorization but they are still acceptable collectibles.

The entire point being, DCARR is creating a fantsy piece of a coin which does not exist and cannot be "proven" to exist.
Lee, that might be YOUR entire point, but it is not THE entire point.

There might or might not be genuine 1964-D Peace Dollars extant. But it might not matter, either way. As I mentioned previously, based on the applicable language in the Hobby Protection Act, I am not convinced that there needs to be recognition/proof of a genuine one, for these to be considered "copies".

"(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government."
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Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

Unless otherwise stated, the opinions I express here are my own.

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#4293540 - 09/29/10 12:35 PM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: James_EarlyUS]
dcarr Offline
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: James_EarlyUS
David, please see my previous comment regarding the PVC flip which you use for housing the coins. Being silver, they are assured of reacting negatively with the flips at some point. You are not sealing the flips anyway, so I should think there would be no problem investing just a trivial amount more in flips that are much safer.

I've already transferred mine to a safe mylar flip, and hope others will do the same.


Hello James,

I ONLY use non-PVC archival-safe flips. The only way your coin would have come in a PVC flip is if you bought it from someone else and they had swapped it.

Check the stiffness of the plastic. If it is stiff, then little or no PVC. If the plastic is very pliable, then it has PVC.

Another way to test is to fold the plastic over and pinch the fold with your fingers. If a permanent white hazing occurs along the fold like, then the plastic has little or no PVC. If the fold like is hardly visible after pinching, then it is PVC plastic.
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#4293574 - 09/29/10 12:47 PM Re: 1964-D Peace Dollar [Re: MarkFeld]
dcarr Offline
If I just sell the car, I can up my bid...


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: MarkFeld
 Originally Posted By: 19Lyds
 Originally Posted By: Dcoin
I'm late to the party but...

What happens when the next coin maker copies the process except with a 1933 20$? Still a fantasy coin right? How about 1804$ or a 1856 cent?

This kind of coin opens the door to not as scrupulous makers to gain a foothold in the legit coin market. Just my mint produced 2c
I guess you are late.

All the coins you mention can be proven to exist and there has never been any question on whether or not they do exist. Some, such as the 1804 and 1856 were restrikes done under questionable authorization but they are still acceptable collectibles.

The entire point being, DCARR is creating a fantsy piece of a coin which does not exist and cannot be "proven" to exist.
Lee, that might be YOUR entire point, but it is not THE entire point.

There might or might not be genuine 1964-D Peace Dollars extant. But it might not matter, either way. As I mentioned previously, based on the applicable language in the Hobby Protection Act, I am not convinced that there needs to be recognition/proof of a genuine one, for these to be considered "copies".

"(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government."


The HPA language is insufficient to really define the matter.
The question is, are my "1964" over-strikes a COPY of an "original numismatic item" or not ?
If I were to strike them on anonymous blanks, then they would be a copy of a Peace Dollar TYPE - but not a "copy" of a 1964 Peace dollar since it can't be a copy if none of the originals exist (according to the government).

However, I'm stamping over (altering) original Peace Dollars. So mine are NOT a "copy" the Peace Dollar type - they ARE (defaced) Peace Dollars.

If a "hobo" nickel carver took an Indian Head nickel and carved the date into something that doesn't exist (like "1922", for example), would they have to stamp "COPY" on the coin ? I say no.



Edited by dcarr (09/29/10 12:48 PM)
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