PROBATION DISCUSSIONS

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I appreciate the offer but I will take care of it. Thank you. I don't want anyone paying for Dan's mistake

Looks like you are paying for it. In too many ways. I hope it is not a pattern you have to follow. My best to you and your expected.

Regards

 

I appreciate the offer but I will take care of it. Thank you. I don't want anyone paying for Dan's mistake

 

Looks like you are paying for it. In too many ways. I hope it is not a pattern you have to follow. My best to you and your expected.

 

Regards

Well it looks to me that LTS is the one at the head chair at dinner Keep it up girl make Michigan proud...

In case anybody missed it, MachineGunned has been banned.

Thanks for taking out the trash again Mods

+1

That sales thread he started smelled to high heaven. Good ridance.

DR.X

I may be alone in this, but it seems that people were a bit hasty with putting machinegunned in the HOS. I didn't follow any discussions that led to him being put there, but I know what he did to defraud the community. In no way am I defending him, rather I'm questioning the future use of the HOS.

I don't know the first 2 members of the HOS or how they got there, but I've been around for every other inductee. It seems that every other person in the Hall of Shame was at one point a fairly well-known member of at least some portion of the community. Whether it's ComicSupply as a retailer, CapFreak as a would-be Borock protege, or AlleyBat as a long list of shills. All were known here in some respect.

Then there's machinegunned. As far as I know, he joined recently and jumped right into the marketplace within days (maybe even hours). Did he attempt to defraud a lot of people? Yes. Does he belong on the probation list? Without question, yes. CapFreak, TFL, and the Danimal were all at one point contributing members of the community. In some ways, I see the drastic change to "the dark side" as reason enough to warrant induction into the Hall of Fame. Shills like muscleshark and Alleybat are repeat offenders and deserve to be there based on the fact that they keep coming back. machinegunned just seems very fly-by-night to me.

If it's proven that machinegunned was a shill for an existing Probation List member, maybe then he should be inducted. Same goes if he comes back under a different name. Until then, he's banned, most or all got their money back, and he should be kept on the probation list as a reminder. HOS? My thought is no.

Possibly all I'm suggesting is that the element of being a contributing member or proven repeat offender under various accounts should be reviewed as criteria as induction into the HOS. I look forward to any thoughts on this.

I may be alone in this, but it seems that people were a bit hasty with putting machinegunned in the HOS. I didn't follow any discussions that led to him being put there, but I know what he did to defraud the community. In no way am I defending him, rather I'm questioning the future use of the HOS.

 

I don't know the first 2 members of the HOS or how they got there, but I've been around for every other inductee. It seems that every other person in the Hall of Shame was at one point a fairly well-known member of at least some portion of the community. Whether it's ComicSupply as a retailer, CapFreak as a would-be Borock protege, or AlleyBat as a long list of shills. All were known here in some respect.

 

Then there's machinegunned. As far as I know, he joined recently and jumped right into the marketplace within days (maybe even hours). Did he attempt to defraud a lot of people? Yes. Does he belong on the probation list? Without question, yes. CapFreak, TFL, and the Danimal were all at one point contributing members of the community. In some ways, I see the drastic change to "the dark side" as reason enough to warrant induction into the Hall of Fame. Shills like muscleshark and Alleybat are repeat offenders and deserve to be there based on the fact that they keep coming back. machinegunned just seems very fly-by-night to me.

 

If it's proven that machinegunned was a shill for an existing Probation List member, maybe then he should be inducted. Same goes if he comes back under a different name. Until then, he's banned, most or all got their money back, and he should be kept on the probation list as a reminder. HOS? My thought is no.

 

Possibly all I'm suggesting is that the element of being a contributing member or proven repeat offender under various accounts should be reviewed as criteria as induction into the HOS. I look forward to any thoughts on this.

People on the Probation List can get off once they've cleared up whatever problems they've got going on. That's what it's for, it's a PROBATION list.

The HOS is kinda the same thing, but you don't get removed. Whatever you've done to get on the HOS, clearing it up doesn't get you off. That's what the HOS is for, and I don't really see how it'd benefit anyone to give scammers a break because they haven't also been a beneficial part of the community. If machinegunned is bad enough that we must always remember not to buy from him, and it sounds like he is, then the HOS is exactly where he belongs. I guess it's just not as tragic to see him there.

I may be alone in this, but it seems that people were a bit hasty with putting machinegunned in the HOS. I didn't follow any discussions that led to him being put there, but I know what he did to defraud the community. In no way am I defending him, rather I'm questioning the future use of the HOS.

 

I don't know the first 2 members of the HOS or how they got there, but I've been around for every other inductee. It seems that every other person in the Hall of Shame was at one point a fairly well-known member of at least some portion of the community. Whether it's ComicSupply as a retailer, CapFreak as a would-be Borock protege, or AlleyBat as a long list of shills. All were known here in some respect.

 

Then there's machinegunned. As far as I know, he joined recently and jumped right into the marketplace within days (maybe even hours). Did he attempt to defraud a lot of people? Yes. Does he belong on the probation list? Without question, yes. CapFreak, TFL, and the Danimal were all at one point contributing members of the community. In some ways, I see the drastic change to "the dark side" as reason enough to warrant induction into the Hall of Fame. Shills like muscleshark and Alleybat are repeat offenders and deserve to be there based on the fact that they keep coming back. machinegunned just seems very fly-by-night to me.

 

If it's proven that machinegunned was a shill for an existing Probation List member, maybe then he should be inducted. Same goes if he comes back under a different name. Until then, he's banned, most or all got their money back, and he should be kept on the probation list as a reminder. HOS? My thought is no.

 

Possibly all I'm suggesting is that the element of being a contributing member or proven repeat offender under various accounts should be reviewed as criteria as induction into the HOS. I look forward to any thoughts on this.

People on the Probation List can get off once they've cleared up whatever problems they've got going on. That's what it's for, it's a PROBATION list.

 

The HOS is kinda the same thing, but you don't get removed. Whatever you've done to get on the HOS, clearing it up doesn't get you off. That's what the HOS is for, and I don't really see how it'd benefit anyone to give scammers a break because they haven't also been a beneficial part of the community. If machinegunned is bad enough that we must always remember not to buy from him, and it sounds like he is, then the HOS is exactly where he belongs. I guess it's just not as tragic to see him there.

I would add this to the above post. MachineGunned came on here trying to sell books on his first post. He had no intention of joining this community or becoming a part of it. It seems he came on here for one reason and one reason only. To scam people, get some money, and get out of Dodge.

It's not quite the same in my opinion as a regular boardie who goes bad and gets put on probabtion for the first offense. His act was intentional from the get go. Just my though.

DR.X

I always took the HOS as a signal that the person on it has either done something that rises to the level of premeditated criminal activity or has acted in a repeated pattern of negligence or recklessness towards the structure of our community and the transactions carried out within while simultaneously making no effort to undo their wrongs or thumbing their nose at their transgressions or the rules meant to protect the rest of the community.

Also I don't think Alleybat is on the list for having a bunch of shills, I think he's on the list for taking thousands of dollars from a board member for a Batman #1 and never delivering the book.

MachineGunned attempted to defraud and steal from several board members given the fact that he solicited business, took money, and then delivered no product. If this happened in our day to day life off these boards there would have been criminal complaints filed. We don't have that here. We have the HOS.

 

To scam people, get some money, and get out of Dodge.

I think they used to call them "Carpet-Baggers"

Also I don't think Alleybat is on the list for having a bunch of shills, I think he's on the list for taking thousands of dollars from a board member for a Batman #1 and never delivering the book.

Exactly. Alleybat was in the HOS for the Batman #1 scam. For quite some time, BucOne aka etc. was in the HOS as a separate entity for various other shenanigans. It was only in the past 4-6 months that someone provided proof that Alleybat and BucOne were the same person.

People on the Probation List can get off once they've cleared up whatever problems they've got going on. That's what it's for, it's a PROBATION list.

 

The HOS is kinda the same thing, but you don't get removed. Whatever you've done to get on the HOS, clearing it up doesn't get you off. That's what the HOS is for, and I don't really see how it'd benefit anyone to give scammers a break because they haven't also been a beneficial part of the community. If machinegunned is bad enough that we must always remember not to buy from him, and it sounds like he is, then the HOS is exactly where he belongs. I guess it's just not as tragic to see him there.

That's a fair point. I guess what I'm getting at is that the last offenses that weren't cleared up with a little communication were thrown right to the HOS. My concern is that if people keep bypassing the probation list and go right to the HOS, the HOS will lose it's impact. Kind of like having your favorite food for dinner...it's great once in a while, but it loses its appeal if you have it every night. Not a great analogy, but it works well enough.

And to be clear, I am very aware of the whole AlleyBat/VTcomics scenario. In fact, it was my first read in the probation area. However, as has already been discussed, value shouldn't be the only determining factor in induction into the HOS and the fact that AlleyBat was eventually revealed as a shill several times over helped out my first point...he was well-known (maybe infamous is a better word) board member before the scam went down.

As for the people saying that machinegunned only intended to scam people from the get-go, I get that. He had no intention of delivering any product and his intent was malicious. I could say that 'at least everyone got their money back', but that argument has more holes than a block of swiss cheese...I'm not sure even RMA could successfully defend that point (although he'd try tooth and nail if he felt like it). However, the fact that he intended to scam people and leave lends to the fact that he was very fly-by-night. Especially now that he's been banned, he won't be coming back under the same name and there would be no getting off the probation list anyway.

I think that most people who get scammed on here will feel that their particular scammer should go into the HOS. That's a natural reaction. I'm just thinking that if everyone starts bypassing the probation list and going right to the Hall of Shame, will people even pay attention to the probation list anymore?

I'd like to state again that I am in no way defending machine gunned. I always appreciate a civil discussion.

I think machinegunned is a good HOS candidate. It's not like he was a good member who "slipped along the way". Apparently he came here, as has been said, with the sole intent of scamming.

I am wondering if people who actually sent him/her money have recourse to getting it back, or if they have already done so?

A heads up to the Boards:

A month ago Gaijin2020, an international boardie, popped the BIN on an Avengers 17 in my last sales thread. I sent him a PM letting him know that I had no idea what shipping was going to be, but I suggested that he pay $15 for shipping and I would cover the rest. No response to PM and no sale. Maybe I was way off on shipping or something, but ignored PMs are lame. I don't care whether he is on the Probation list or not, but I do want everyone to know what may be in store for them with this guy.

--S.

You still up for that massage?

A heads up to the Boards:

 

A month ago Gaijin2020, an international boardie, popped the BIN on an Avengers 17 in my last sales thread. I sent him a PM letting him know that I had no idea what shipping was going to be, but I suggested that he pay $15 for shipping and I would cover the rest. No response to PM and no sale. Maybe I was way off on shipping or something, but ignored PMs are lame. I don't care whether he is on the Probation list or not, but I do want everyone to know what may be in store for them with this guy.

 

--S.

 

You still up for that massage?

 

A heads up to the Boards:

 

A month ago Gaijin2020, an international boardie, popped the BIN on an Avengers 17 in my last sales thread. I sent him a PM letting him know that I had no idea what shipping was going to be, but I suggested that he pay $15 for shipping and I would cover the rest. No response to PM and no sale. Maybe I was way off on shipping or something, but ignored PMs are lame. I don't care whether he is on the Probation list or not, but I do want everyone to know what may be in store for them with this guy.

 

--S.

Gaijin2020? Gaijin2020?

Just be careful you don't p.o. Daimajin, or you'll really be in the soup.