PROBATION DISCUSSIONS

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I am pretty sure most people have attempted to work out any issues before just coming here and adding someone.

Most probably have. I'm just suggesting that, at a minimum, when someone is added to the probation list the person doing it send them a PM so we know that someone has actually contacted them after the deal went bad and about the probation issue and they know about the probation list.

 

Instead what seems to be happening is a sale goes bad, people wait 30 days and then say "my sale went bad so I want to put so-and-so on the probation list" and boom! it happens.

 

What are some examples of this happening?

 

mikegg is one. The sale went bad and he's on the probation list until he apologizes to the seller. After the sale went bad the seller made no effort to contact him to work things out to mutual satisfaction -- he refunded the money but was still upset so wants the guy on the probation list.

 

Look at Jmarch51 -- OK it's from 2 yrs ago but the posts are still there. Buyer reports the deal falls through and he took the book to ebay. Ok that's wrong. Didn't say anything about trying to contact him and say "hey we had a deal, we need to work this out". Just "the deal fell through let's probie him" and bang! the next day jmarch51 is on the probation list.

 

It's being used as a punishment by people who are angry their deals fell through. In neither case is anyone out any money or merchandise, and while I agree that backing out of a deal is wrong and should be discouraged, people are being added to the probation list for busted deals without actually trying to work things out.

First of all, if these people are are so tenuously and tangentially involved in this Board that they can go two years without knowing they are on the Probation List, what difference does it make? Secondly, how does either the mikeggg or the Jmarch51 example show that there was no communication or no attempt to resolve the situation. It's been a while since I read the mikeggg story, but my recollection is that he made it quite clear, initially, that he wasn't going to do the deal. What would the other party need to do to satisfy you? I'm not sure I get why anyone should even care?

 

Instead what seems to be happening is a sale goes bad, people wait 30 days and then say "my sale went bad so I want to put so-and-so on the probation list" and boom! it happens.

 

What are some examples of this happening?

 

mikegg is one. The sale went bad and he's on the probation list until he apologizes to the seller. After the sale went bad the seller made no effort to contact him to work things out to mutual satisfaction -- he refunded the money but was still upset so wants the guy on the probation list.

 

Look at Jmarch51 -- OK it's from 2 yrs ago but the posts are still there. Buyer reports the deal falls through and he took the book to ebay. Ok that's wrong. Didn't say anything about trying to contact him and say "hey we had a deal, we need to work this out". Just "the deal fell through let's probie him" and bang! the next day jmarch51 is on the probation list.

 

It's being used as a punishment by people who are angry their deals fell through. In neither case is anyone out any money or merchandise, and while I agree that backing out of a deal is wrong and should be discouraged, people are being added to the probation list for busted deals without actually trying to work things out.

 

First of all, if these people are are so tenuously and tangentially involved in this Board that they can go two years without knowing they are on the Probation List, what difference does it make? Secondly, how does either the mikeggg or the Jmarch51 example show that there was no communication or no attempt to resolve the situation. It's been a while since I read the mikeggg story, but my recollection is that he made it quite clear, initially, that he wasn't going to do the deal. What would the other party need to do to satisfy you? I'm not sure I get why anyone should even care?

I agree.

Jploz,

Do you have any skin in those transactions? If not, what's the beef?!?

First of all, if these people are are so tenuously and tangentially involved in this Board that they can go two years without knowing they are on the Probation List, what difference does it make?

That's kind of my point Sean. Jmarch51 has been an active member of this board. He's bought & sold many items and has multiple positive comments in the Kudos thread. He simply didn't know about the probation list ("where is this probation list? Does it say why I am on there"). He didn't know he'd been blackballed (at least, by the people who follow the probie list) over something that happened 2 years ago, and frankly that strikes me as unfair.

That's what difference it makes, to me.

Jploz,

Do you have any skin in those transactions? If not, what's the beef?!?

I can't remember if I've bought from jmarch51 or not, but I've seen enough of his threads to have thought about buying from him, but my "point" (not beef) was simply that I'm suggesting an addition to the Probation List process -- to notify the people who are added to the list.

I'm surprised there's so much criticism of that idea. Maybe it is a "secret cadre" as comix4fun suggested (I don't really think that).

First of all, if these people are are so tenuously and tangentially involved in this Board that they can go two years without knowing they are on the Probation List, what difference does it make?

 

That's kind of my point Sean. Jmarch51 has been an active member of this board. He's bought & sold many items and has multiple positive comments in the Kudos thread. He simply didn't know about the probation list ("where is this probation list? Does it say why I am on there"). He didn't know he'd been blackballed (at least, by the people who follow the probie list) over something that happened 2 years ago, and frankly that strikes me as unfair.

 

That's what difference it makes, to me.

 

 

Jploz,

Do you have any skin in those transactions? If not, what's the beef?!?

 

I can't remember if I've bought from jmarch51 or not, but I've seen enough of his threads to have thought about buying from him, but my "point" (not beef) was simply that I'm suggesting an addition to the Probation List process -- to notify the people who are added to the list.

 

I'm surprised there's so much criticism of that idea. Maybe it is a "secret cadre" as comix4fun suggested (I don't really think that).

 

I do understand where you are coming from. Here is where I am coming from:

The folks that come here and do nothing but buy and sell do not really do a lot for me, personally. Not to say that I wouldn't do business with them. But to me part of the social contract with being part of the marketplace is being part of the larger community. Not that you have to, but that you should. To me it is almost like bad manners to do nothing but buy and sell. Just my opinion, though.

Anyone that is so loosely involved with the forum as a whole so as not to have established relationships, or even one person who would say "Dude, you need to clean up that Probation deal!" tells me that is not a person that I would worry too much about, because they don't seem to care one way or the other.

It's not that I don't think you have a point. it's that i think you are wasting your energy fighting for the type of folks that don't give a squirt about anything other than peddling their wares.

Finally, I like having the Probation thread here to do its job, because while evidence of being on the probation thread is not necessarily damning, multiple infractions mean stay the hell away. I am the guy that went out and found, bought and sent Connor CapFreak a golden age comic for helping Kenny out with Christmas a couple of years ago. I need to be reminded who the bad guys are.

Anyone on the probation list is there for a reason. There is no conspiracy or blackmail. The list is to inform other board members of people who have not followed through on a deal without just cause. In some cases, people on the list have accepted money (a lot of money) and never shipped the book(s). Someone not knowing they are on the list is not "our" problem.

seanfingh, thanks I see where you're coming from. Stuff to think about. Appreciated.

First of all, if these people are are so tenuously and tangentially involved in this Board that they can go two years without knowing they are on the Probation List, what difference does it make?

 

That's kind of my point Sean. Jmarch51 has been an active member of this board. He's bought & sold many items and has multiple positive comments in the Kudos thread. He simply didn't know about the probation list ("where is this probation list? Does it say why I am on there"). He didn't know he'd been blackballed (at least, by the people who follow the probie list) over something that happened 2 years ago, and frankly that strikes me as unfair.

 

That's what difference it makes, to me.

 

 

Jploz,

Do you have any skin in those transactions? If not, what's the beef?!?

 

I can't remember if I've bought from jmarch51 or not, but I've seen enough of his threads to have thought about buying from him, but my "point" (not beef) was simply that I'm suggesting an addition to the Probation List process -- to notify the people who are added to the list.

 

I'm surprised there's so much criticism of that idea. Maybe it is a "secret cadre" as comix4fun suggested (I don't really think that).

 

 

I do understand where you are coming from. Here is where I am coming from:

 

The folks that come here and do nothing but buy and sell do not really do a lot for me, personally. Not to say that I wouldn't do business with them. But to me part of the social contract with being part of the marketplace is being part of the larger community. Not that you have to, but that you should. To me it is almost like bad manners to do nothing but buy and sell. Just my opinion, though.

 

Anyone that is so loosely involved with the forum as a whole so as not to have established relationships, or even one person who would say "Dude, you need to clean up that Probation deal!" tells me that is not a person that I would worry too much about, because they don't seem to care one way or the other.

 

It's not that I don't think you have a point. it's that i think you are wasting your energy fighting for the type of folks that don't give a squirt about anything other than peddling their wares.

 

Finally, I like having the Probation thread here to do its job, because while evidence of being on the probation thread is not necessarily damning, multiple infractions mean stay the hell away. I am the guy that went out and found, bought and sent Connor CapFreak a golden age comic for helping Kenny out with Christmas a couple of years ago. I need to be reminded who the bad guys are.

+10000000000

I am pretty sure most people have attempted to work out any issues before just coming here and adding someone.

 

Most probably have. I'm just suggesting that, at a minimum, when someone is added to the probation list the person doing it send them a PM so we know that someone has actually contacted them after the deal went bad and about the probation issue and they know about the probation list.

As someone kindly pointed out to me, when I was feeling sorry for a transgressor and I suggested it be posted somewhere most visable, the thread is stickied...and part of the process involved in getting ON the probation threads, involves PMs and in general the lack of response.

The fact that someone on the list has kudos for selling, since he's been on the list, is something I find troubling. I guess some of us should print it and put it on our walls to check. :shrug:

That was why I posted it in his recent thread, it seemed no one else was going to and I wanted to make sure he could correct his issue. After all he had some books that looked good.

i would think the last thing this board needs to be worried about is someone trying to buy or sell books without being aware of their Probation List status. they'll get a reminder in due time.

it's the beauty of a self-policed environment; generally the community will watch out for itself in degrees

True, i check the list before i deal with anybody in a buyer/seller capacity. Not only that, but many of the boardies do police the threads and post when some one is on it. By the same token, I have also seen things worked out before the list is even considered; and I've only been on here a short while.

My first post here in this thread after probably hundreds of transactions

New user ffxmen14 hit the on four lots in my last sales thread and when I sent him the invoice, this was his reply:

by ffxmen 14 Hey I hate to do this but i got beat on here out of some money from an old buyer not saying that youll do that but i dont want to risk loosing anymore money. So im not going to be using this site anymore I just dont want to loose anymore cash.

I looked through all of his posts to see who may have screwed him, but could find no evidence of foul play. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I replied:

by Yours Truly So are you saying you don't want the books? You realize that kind of thing could put you on the probation list, right? I've been selling on these boards for 3 years without an incident, but it's your call.

 

Who was the user that ripped you off? You should let everyone know so we can deal with the person accordingly.

This was on April 9th and he has yet to reply, so my guess is that he's either left the boards as he indicated or is just simply ignoring the situation and moving forward. If so, it's really too bad that he's willing to trash his reputation in the community and lose a valuable resource in the Buying/Selling forum over a $23 transaction.

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

It's been a case-by-case review for a while now. Any objections to the foregoing addition? I didn't see any in the discussion thread, nor did I see the offending party's response.

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

Yeah, in this case the dude basically stated flat out that he wasn't paying. That pretty much voids the 30 day grace period, IMO. But I'm good either way, which is why I asked earlier.

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

 

It's been a case-by-case review for a while now. Any objections to the foregoing addition? I didn't see any in the discussion thread, nor did I see the offending party's response.

No objections from me at all. A case-by-case basis is the way to go on buyers reneging.

To this I'll give

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

 

Yeah, in this case the dude basically stated flat out that he wasn't paying. That pretty much voids the 30 day grace period, IMO. But I'm good either way, which is why I asked earlier.

He didn't just say he wasn't paying. He also said he wasn't using the boards anymore: "by ffxmen 14 Hey I hate to do this but i got beat on here out of some money from an old buyer not saying that youll do that but i dont want to risk loosing anymore money. So im not going to be using this site anymore I just dont want to loose anymore cash."

So sure - put him on the list!

PS: He also used "loose" instead of "lose", and seems to not know the apostrophe, either of which should automatically put him on the list!

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

 

Yeah, in this case the dude basically stated flat out that he wasn't paying. That pretty much voids the 30 day grace period, IMO. But I'm good either way, which is why I asked earlier.

 

He didn't just say he wasn't paying. He also said he wasn't using the boards anymore: "by ffxmen 14 Hey I hate to do this but i got beat on here out of some money from an old buyer not saying that youll do that but i dont want to risk loosing anymore money. So im not going to be using this site anymore I just dont want to loose anymore cash."

 

So sure - put him on the list!

 

PS: He also used "loose" instead of "lose", and seems to not know the apostrophe, either of which should automatically put him on the list!

Does this mean the 30-day rule for flaking buyers has gone out the window Divad?

 

Yeah, in this case the dude basically stated flat out that he wasn't paying. That pretty much voids the 30 day grace period, IMO. But I'm good either way, which is why I asked earlier.

 

He didn't just say he wasn't paying. He also said he wasn't using the boards anymore: "by ffxmen 14 Hey I hate to do this but i got beat on here out of some money from an old buyer not saying that youll do that but i dont want to risk loosing anymore money. So im not going to be using this site anymore I just dont want to loose anymore cash."

 

So sure - put him on the list!

 

PS: He also used "loose" instead of "lose", and seems to not know the apostrophe, either of which should automatically put him on the list!

So you change your name a couple of times and think you can pass off as a grammar expert?

Some of us know who you really are.