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#2890665 - 01/22/09 09:21 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: THE_BEYONDER]
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#2890680 - 01/22/09 09:29 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: General Zod]
batman_fan Offline
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 Originally Posted By: General Zod
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Who has an Ewert book that has been trimmed? Break that book out of the slab, and resubmit it without noting it as an Ewert book. I'll pay $10 to help pay for the regrade, I'm sure others would pitch in. If it comes back unrestored, CGC can't reliably detect some trimmed books. If they catch it, they can. Much better method then posting a bunch of conjecture about how hard it is to detect, and how CGC can't detect trimming or the trim job Ewert did, etc. Surely someone must have one.


This experiment has already been run at least once.

Results: Book came back in a blue holder, no trimming. Later it was returned to CGC because before and after scans existed and it was finally declared "trimmed".


That was hardly a controlled and well-documented experiment run by reputable people. I trust Dad&Son as far as I can spit.


It wasn't Dad&Son, it was a well known dealer that was told a book was a Ewert book and was definitely trimmed. They cracked it out of the case, resubbed without telling CGC and got it in a new blue holder which was then relisted it on a site. It was detected again and eventially exposed. I would say pretty good example. My summary may not be the best, but the whole thing played out here on these boards so a search should find it.
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#2890687 - 01/22/09 09:40 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: batman_fan]
Flaming_Telepath Offline
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 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: General Zod
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Who has an Ewert book that has been trimmed? Break that book out of the slab, and resubmit it without noting it as an Ewert book. I'll pay $10 to help pay for the regrade, I'm sure others would pitch in. If it comes back unrestored, CGC can't reliably detect some trimmed books. If they catch it, they can. Much better method then posting a bunch of conjecture about how hard it is to detect, and how CGC can't detect trimming or the trim job Ewert did, etc. Surely someone must have one.


This experiment has already been run at least once.

Results: Book came back in a blue holder, no trimming. Later it was returned to CGC because before and after scans existed and it was finally declared "trimmed".


That was hardly a controlled and well-documented experiment run by reputable people. I trust Dad&Son as far as I can spit.


It wasn't Dad&Son, it was a well known dealer that was told a book was a Ewert book and was definitely trimmed. They cracked it out of the case, resubbed without telling CGC and got it in a new blue holder which was then relisted it on a site. It was detected again and eventially exposed. I would say pretty good example. My summary may not be the best, but the whole thing played out here on these boards so a search should find it.


It was Doug Schmell.

He was advised by both FFB and Brent Moeshlin that he had a trimmed Ewert JIM on his hands.

His response was to rush it through a walk-thru at CGC the very next morning without letting them know what it was, in the hope of getting a higher grade and a nice new untainted serial number. meh
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#2890691 - 01/22/09 09:44 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: Flaming_Telepath]
THE_BEYONDER Offline

The world looks mighty good to me cuz signatures are all I see.

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 Originally Posted By: Flaming_Telepath
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: General Zod
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Who has an Ewert book that has been trimmed? Break that book out of the slab, and resubmit it without noting it as an Ewert book. I'll pay $10 to help pay for the regrade, I'm sure others would pitch in. If it comes back unrestored, CGC can't reliably detect some trimmed books. If they catch it, they can. Much better method then posting a bunch of conjecture about how hard it is to detect, and how CGC can't detect trimming or the trim job Ewert did, etc. Surely someone must have one.


This experiment has already been run at least once.

Results: Book came back in a blue holder, no trimming. Later it was returned to CGC because before and after scans existed and it was finally declared "trimmed".


That was hardly a controlled and well-documented experiment run by reputable people. I trust Dad&Son as far as I can spit.


It wasn't Dad&Son, it was a well known dealer that was told a book was a Ewert book and was definitely trimmed. They cracked it out of the case, resubbed without telling CGC and got it in a new blue holder which was then relisted it on a site. It was detected again and eventially exposed. I would say pretty good example. My summary may not be the best, but the whole thing played out here on these boards so a search should find it.


It was Doug Schmell.

He was advised by both FFB and Brent Moeshlin that he had a trimmed Ewert JIM on his hands.

His response was to rush it through a walk-thru at CGC the very next morning without letting them know what it was, in the hope of getting a higher grade and a nice new untainted serial number. meh


Stand-up guy meh

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#2890696 - 01/22/09 09:47 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: Flaming_Telepath]
THE_BEYONDER Offline

The world looks mighty good to me cuz signatures are all I see.

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I wonder how many Ewert books were cracked out & resubbed without giving CGC the 'heads up'.....

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#2890698 - 01/22/09 09:48 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: THE_BEYONDER]
DiceX Offline

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 Originally Posted By: THE_BEYONDER
 Originally Posted By: Flaming_Telepath
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: General Zod
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Who has an Ewert book that has been trimmed? Break that book out of the slab, and resubmit it without noting it as an Ewert book. I'll pay $10 to help pay for the regrade, I'm sure others would pitch in. If it comes back unrestored, CGC can't reliably detect some trimmed books. If they catch it, they can. Much better method then posting a bunch of conjecture about how hard it is to detect, and how CGC can't detect trimming or the trim job Ewert did, etc. Surely someone must have one.


This experiment has already been run at least once.

Results: Book came back in a blue holder, no trimming. Later it was returned to CGC because before and after scans existed and it was finally declared "trimmed".


That was hardly a controlled and well-documented experiment run by reputable people. I trust Dad&Son as far as I can spit.


It wasn't Dad&Son, it was a well known dealer that was told a book was a Ewert book and was definitely trimmed. They cracked it out of the case, resubbed without telling CGC and got it in a new blue holder which was then relisted it on a site. It was detected again and eventially exposed. I would say pretty good example. My summary may not be the best, but the whole thing played out here on these boards so a search should find it.


It was Doug Schmell.

He was advised by both FFB and Brent Moeshlin that he had a trimmed Ewert JIM on his hands.

His response was to rush it through a walk-thru at CGC the very next morning without letting them know what it was, in the hope of getting a higher grade and a nice new untainted serial number. meh


Stand-up guy meh


What was the result? I know it got blue, but did it get a different grade?
I thought Doug was a reputable dealer and stand up guy. Did he do this to launder the book, or did he come clean?
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#2890716 - 01/22/09 10:01 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: DiceX]
Flaming_Telepath Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 34286
Loc: Hertfordshire, U.K.
 Originally Posted By: DiceX
 Originally Posted By: THE_BEYONDER
 Originally Posted By: Flaming_Telepath
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: General Zod
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: Murph
Who has an Ewert book that has been trimmed? Break that book out of the slab, and resubmit it without noting it as an Ewert book. I'll pay $10 to help pay for the regrade, I'm sure others would pitch in. If it comes back unrestored, CGC can't reliably detect some trimmed books. If they catch it, they can. Much better method then posting a bunch of conjecture about how hard it is to detect, and how CGC can't detect trimming or the trim job Ewert did, etc. Surely someone must have one.


This experiment has already been run at least once.

Results: Book came back in a blue holder, no trimming. Later it was returned to CGC because before and after scans existed and it was finally declared "trimmed".


That was hardly a controlled and well-documented experiment run by reputable people. I trust Dad&Son as far as I can spit.


It wasn't Dad&Son, it was a well known dealer that was told a book was a Ewert book and was definitely trimmed. They cracked it out of the case, resubbed without telling CGC and got it in a new blue holder which was then relisted it on a site. It was detected again and eventially exposed. I would say pretty good example. My summary may not be the best, but the whole thing played out here on these boards so a search should find it.


It was Doug Schmell.

He was advised by both FFB and Brent Moeshlin that he had a trimmed Ewert JIM on his hands.

His response was to rush it through a walk-thru at CGC the very next morning without letting them know what it was, in the hope of getting a higher grade and a nice new untainted serial number. meh


Stand-up guy meh


What was the result? I know it got blue, but did it get a different grade?
I thought Doug was a reputable dealer and stand up guy. Did he do this to launder the book, or did he come clean?



Are we talking about the same Doug Schmell? \(shrug\)

I'm talking about the guy who got into selling comics because he was disbarred from being a lawyer, due to him defrauding his clients.

As for him coming clean...no, he didn't. He made a p!ss-poor job of refuting the allegations, one mumbled, vague, unsubstantiated excuse after another, until he promised to produce concrete evidence of his innocence...and then never did. doh\!
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#2890721 - 01/22/09 10:04 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: DrWatson]
Foolkiller Offline
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 21540
Loc: Baltimore, MD
 Originally Posted By: DrWatson
 Originally Posted By: namisgr
 Originally Posted By: DrWatson
The term "original owner" really doesn't mean anything anymore. It is nothing more than a sales tool.


Don't mean to single out one small aspect of your position, Jim, but this one hits close to home and so I wanted to address it.

The term "original owner" means everything to some collectors. That is, when it is used in the appropriate context. I've started to sell off books that I bought off the rack back in the day. Being the original owner, and having left the books unmanipulated, I can say with absolute certainty to the buying public that these books are unmanipulated.

While I recognize that this doesn't mean anything to many collectors, there are at least a few who prefer to buy this type of collectible. So when certain sellers start each of their sales threads with the line "Yeah, yeah, like any other seller, any book I have may have been pressed", it is worthwhile to remember that they are wrong. There are, indeed, rare circumstances under which a seller can unconditionally guarantee that the books they are offering are unmanipulated. In this case, rather than the term "original owner" carrying no meaning, it instead carries a great deal of meaning, especially since the opportunities to buy guaranteed unmanipulated books are so infrequent.

No offense, Bob, but all we have is your word that you bought them off the news stand. I don't have any reason to believe you would lie, quite the contrary, but I have seen more than one seller do it here without any compunction whatsoever. So, for me, the OO designation holds very little weight.

I also see it as away of saying, "buy me, press me" without the seller having to come right out and say that. Therefore satisfying both ends of the buying and selling spectrum and still being able to hold common ground with both sides and everyone marginally happy.


Just to bolster this opinion... look at the diamond run books -- the speculation was that non diamond run books were added and just claimed to be part of the original owner run -- even though some had obvious resto done to them.

OO does mean something to me in the case of Bob or Harry -- but how often do I actually know the original owner? Not many.

I don't see it as an opportunity to say, buy me and press me, so much as it is to play on advertising that there is something supposedly very unique about this collection.
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#2890722 - 01/22/09 10:04 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: Flaming_Telepath]
THE_BEYONDER Offline

The world looks mighty good to me cuz signatures are all I see.

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Registered: 04/17/03
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Isolated Incident

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#2890733 - 01/22/09 10:08 AM Re: CGC Response on Suspected Ewert Books [Re: THE_BEYONDER]
Flaming_Telepath Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 34286
Loc: Hertfordshire, U.K.
 Originally Posted By: THE_BEYONDER
Isolated Incident


Which one?

The undeclared walk-thru of a high value Ewert book, in pursuit of a 9.6 label and new untainted serial number?

Or the two years' worth of clients' money he withheld?

\(shrug\)
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