Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 23372
Loc: Perv Toy Row, San Francisco, C...
Originally Posted By: Trev
Originally Posted By: Peter Loves Gwen
Originally Posted By: Trev
Originally Posted By: Peter Loves Gwen
Originally Posted By: Speedy-D
To all the sellers who try to get around paying the Paypal fees, I want you to know that it's a huge turn off, and, while I hesitate to say "I'll never buy from you!!! " so far I have refused to do so. For instance, there are some early Spideys for sale right now. I'd buy two if not all three of them if the seller would just handle his Paypal business better.
You have two options:
1. Eat the cost. It's a cost of doing business, so deal with it. 2. Factor the fees into your asking price. Is that so hard to do?
When you ask me to pay your fees, or to send the money to you as a gift, thereby leaving me no recourse should the deal go south, you lose my business. I just thought people might be interested to know.
I'm not the only one, right?
I accept PayPal, and eat the costs, and figure it into pricing.
PayPal is the bad guy though, please remember that. It doesn't take 3+% in fees to perform the virtual zero labor of handling millions of dollars in transactions per day. Banks don't make 1/50th of the profit as PayPal does per man hour of labor etc, IMO.
I'm sure that you and many have noticed a post I have made suggesting the best way to handle the fees. I doubt many have ever done what I suggested, or even thought of it. Someone should contact PayPal, and not bash fellow members. PayPal is the bad guy, did I say that already?
Clearly you've never tried to run a major enterprise business on the internet. I agree the fee might be a little high, but the cost per transaction is definitely not 0. What about all the people working to keep the site running and the business flowing? Are they 0 labor?
You tell me, how many people does it take to operate an internet only company? Remember that they have zero costs for labor like shipping, no fraud of the business or the dozens of normal business expenses. Their biggest cost is their customer support department, which is very good, though the policies protect sellers too much.
Stop defending PayPal, they make billions in profit per year, with the costs of a small business like a single McDonald's. They can function equally with those people handling $1 million in business, or $1 trillion.
It's like a person defending the government for stealing over 50% of every dollar from every income earner. It's bad, it's not honorable. I would love to make that kind of money for virtually no costs, but then again, I wouldn't do it, my fees would be much more reasonable.
Please do not judge me as mean etc, for simply posting my opinions. I am a good person, very fair and honorable. I do not take advantage of others because I can get away with it, for any reason. I try to do the right thing, even if I have that kind of advantage or leverage. PayPal has a monopoly, and they are taking full advantage of that. There are federal laws against monopolies, because of the unfair decisions which they typically make.
lol. software doesn't write and maintain itself.
if this is what you think their costs are, then i'm not sure how to help you.
Not just software. Server maintenance, replacements and upgrades. OS upgrades. Router and firewall maintenance, replacements and upgrades. LAN and WAN contracts. Telephone contracts. Security maintenance, enforcement, research and compliance. And lots more.
It is not as if they have a computer sitting in a little office connected via DSL or Cable to the internet.
GENERAL PUBLIC SERVICE NOTICE ON POSTING GUIDELINES
Note that the members of this board are encouraged to POLITELY point out posts that violate the marketplace posting guidelines, and to notify the moderators.
Thread starters: If you disagree that the guidelines have been violated and have reasons, then take it to the discussion thread and hash it out there. But please take the time to read the guidelines.
A probation list for bad transactions is maintained by the community. You are still responsible for your own transactions.
#5739077 - 06/03/1204:03 PMRe: FORUM SALES "DISCUSSION" THREAD
[Re: Povertyrow]
To all the sellers who try to get around paying the Paypal fees, I want you to know that it's a huge turn off, and, while I hesitate to say "I'll never buy from you!!! " so far I have refused to do so. For instance, there are some early Spideys for sale right now. I'd buy two if not all three of them if the seller would just handle his Paypal business better.
You have two options:
1. Eat the cost. It's a cost of doing business, so deal with it. 2. Factor the fees into your asking price. Is that so hard to do?
When you ask me to pay your fees, or to send the money to you as a gift, thereby leaving me no recourse should the deal go south, you lose my business. I just thought people might be interested to know.
I'm not the only one, right?
I accept PayPal, and eat the costs, and figure it into pricing.
PayPal is the bad guy though, please remember that. It doesn't take 3+% in fees to perform the virtual zero labor of handling millions of dollars in transactions per day. Banks don't make 1/50th of the profit as PayPal does per man hour of labor etc, IMO.
I'm sure that you and many have noticed a post I have made suggesting the best way to handle the fees. I doubt many have ever done what I suggested, or even thought of it. Someone should contact PayPal, and not bash fellow members. PayPal is the bad guy, did I say that already?
Clearly you've never tried to run a major enterprise business on the internet. I agree the fee might be a little high, but the cost per transaction is definitely not 0. What about all the people working to keep the site running and the business flowing? Are they 0 labor?
You tell me, how many people does it take to operate an internet only company? Remember that they have zero costs for labor like shipping, no fraud of the business or the dozens of normal business expenses. Their biggest cost is their customer support department, which is very good, though the policies protect sellers too much.
Stop defending PayPal, they make billions in profit per year, with the costs of a small business like a single McDonald's. They can function equally with those people handling $1 million in business, or $1 trillion.
It's like a person defending the government for stealing over 50% of every dollar from every income earner. It's bad, it's not honorable. I would love to make that kind of money for virtually no costs, but then again, I wouldn't do it, my fees would be much more reasonable.
Please do not judge me as mean etc, for simply posting my opinions. I am a good person, very fair and honorable. I do not take advantage of others because I can get away with it, for any reason. I try to do the right thing, even if I have that kind of advantage or leverage. PayPal has a monopoly, and they are taking full advantage of that. There are federal laws against monopolies, because of the unfair decisions which they typically make.
lol. software doesn't write and maintain itself.
if this is what you think their costs are, then i'm not sure how to help you.
Not just software. Server maintenance, replacements and upgrades. OS upgrades. Router and firewall maintenance, replacements and upgrades. LAN and WAN contracts. Telephone contracts. Security maintenance, enforcement, research and compliance. And lots more.
It is not as if they have a computer sitting in a little office connected via DSL or Cable to the internet.
It's true that it costs a lot to run Paypal. And it's true that they make serious bank. If you don't like how much they charge, don't offer Paypal as an accepted method of payment. If you do offer it though, don't tell me I gotta pay your fees. At least be a little sneaky and factor it into your asking price.
O, and if you've got the notion that you're tricking me by offering a 3% discount if I pay by check or MO, I'm smarter than you think! I see right through that, and view your sales thread just the same as I would if you tried to tack on the 3%.
"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased." - Alexander Hamilton
Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 19264
Loc: Alberta Canada
Originally Posted By: Peter Loves Gwen
Originally Posted By: Trev
Originally Posted By: Peter Loves Gwen
Originally Posted By: Speedy-D
To all the sellers who try to get around paying the Paypal fees, I want you to know that it's a huge turn off, and, while I hesitate to say "I'll never buy from you!!! " so far I have refused to do so. For instance, there are some early Spideys for sale right now. I'd buy two if not all three of them if the seller would just handle his Paypal business better.
You have two options:
1. Eat the cost. It's a cost of doing business, so deal with it. 2. Factor the fees into your asking price. Is that so hard to do?
When you ask me to pay your fees, or to send the money to you as a gift, thereby leaving me no recourse should the deal go south, you lose my business. I just thought people might be interested to know.
I'm not the only one, right?
I accept PayPal, and eat the costs, and figure it into pricing.
PayPal is the bad guy though, please remember that. It doesn't take 3+% in fees to perform the virtual zero labor of handling millions of dollars in transactions per day. Banks don't make 1/50th of the profit as PayPal does per man hour of labor etc, IMO.
I'm sure that you and many have noticed a post I have made suggesting the best way to handle the fees. I doubt many have ever done what I suggested, or even thought of it. Someone should contact PayPal, and not bash fellow members. PayPal is the bad guy, did I say that already?
Clearly you've never tried to run a major enterprise business on the internet. I agree the fee might be a little high, but the cost per transaction is definitely not 0. What about all the people working to keep the site running and the business flowing? Are they 0 labor?
You tell me, how many people does it take to operate an internet only company? Remember that they have zero costs for labor like shipping, no fraud of the business or the dozens of normal business expenses. Their biggest cost is their customer support department, which is very good, though the policies protect sellers too much.
Stop defending PayPal, they make billions in profit per year, with the costs of a small business like a single McDonald's. They can function equally with those people handling $1 million in business, or $1 trillion.
It's like a person defending the government for stealing over 50% of every dollar from every income earner. It's bad, it's not honorable. I would love to make that kind of money for virtually no costs, but then again, I wouldn't do it, my fees would be much more reasonable.
Please do not judge me as mean etc, for simply posting my opinions. I am a good person, very fair and honorable. I do not take advantage of others because I can get away with it, for any reason. I try to do the right thing, even if I have that kind of advantage or leverage. PayPal has a monopoly, and they are taking full advantage of that. There are federal laws against monopolies, because of the unfair decisions which they typically make.
You have every right to your opinion. As does everyone here.
I think you're underestimating the staff paypal carries and the cost for them to do business but I think you're right - they're making a good profit.
If someone can create a competitive service for a cheaper cost paypal will be in trouble. I know the banks have developed an electronic $$ transfer method that works well and I'm sure there are others out there and many more on the way.
I don't begrudge paypal's costs as I find them convenient and reliable but none of it really applies to a seller who is selling here for free and still is too dang cheap to lose 3% due to paypal fees. Look at the costs to sell via ebay, clink or :shudder: heritage auctions.
a) I run a business that takes credit cards for a long time now and I constantly looks for way to reduce the cost of transaction fees charged as long as I can remember. The terminal and the service that allowed us to charge Amex, Discover, Visa, and Mastercard run around 3% or so per month. So, we run 50% of our revenue thru the terminal to offer CONVENIENCES for our clients. That amount to $30k per month and each month, we pay $1k to $1200 to the company that LEASES us the terminal and service. There are many companies that provide this service and you can call 10 and give or take 0.5% or $30 here or there, I will still pay roughly 3% to whoever I decide to use. I got calls all the time to switch each and every time, the numbers didn't change much.
b) Paypal is doing pretty much the same as these type of providers so they are offering to small businesses/individuals like all of us to offer and take or pay like any businesses. They have a nice monopoly with the individuals but the 3% is not gouging or unfair. If Paypal doesn't exist, how many people here is willing to go lease a terminal to offer credit pard payment option?
c) Now onto something even more difficult to debate. Why are the buyers (in general) here expect all the benefits of the savings. Whether it is CL fees, ebay fees, or Paypal fees, why is it wrong for the sellers to get part of the benefits?
Sure, if I can sell an item on Ebay for $1000, roughly after Ebay and Paypal fees, I might only get $850 (give or take but you get the idea), so why is it wrong for me or someone else to ask $925? split the difference? If this is about fairness, then is it wrong to expect part of the "windfall" instead of the buyers get 100% of the windfall?
thankfully, I don't have much to sell or buy these days so I don't have to worry about offending anyone to boycott me but lets hear it.
Heck I am guilty too of low balling also so this is by no mean how I make offer each and every time but occasionally, I have made an offer like this
"GPA = $1000, so I will offer $950 because I think it is a win win for both of us"
how many of you would write something like this "GPA = $1000 so I will offer you $900 since that is what you get if you sell on CL"
is it offensive to me? no but that is the reality of what buyers expect and want around here.
Heck I can go on about GPA and the flaws there as well but that is a different debate.
_________________________
If you keep your collection in the closet, you can't enjoy it, you can't touch it, you can't share it" a line I heard from the show Collection Intervention.
#5739315 - 06/03/1206:03 PMRe: FORUM SALES "DISCUSSION" THREAD
[Re: etanick]
AcesAces Seemed lonely sitting around with no custom title.
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 33001
Loc: Phil's Parking Lot
Originally Posted By: etanick
let me shine in for what it is worth.
a) I run a business that takes credit cards for a long time now and I constantly looks for way to reduce the cost of transaction fees charged as long as I can remember. The terminal and the service that allowed us to charge Amex, Discover, Visa, and Mastercard run around 3% or so per month. So, we run 50% of our revenue thru the terminal to offer CONVENIENCES for our clients. That amount to $30k per month and each month, we pay $1k to $1200 to the company that LEASES us the terminal and service. There are many companies that provide this service and you can call 10 and give or take 0.5% or $30 here or there, I will still pay roughly 3% to whoever I decide to use. I got calls all the time to switch each and every time, the numbers didn't change much.
b) Paypal is doing pretty much the same as these type of providers so they are offering to small businesses/individuals like all of us to offer and take or pay like any businesses. They have a nice monopoly with the individuals but the 3% is not gouging or unfair. If Paypal doesn't exist, how many people here is willing to go lease a terminal to offer credit pard payment option?
c) Now onto something even more difficult to debate. Why are the buyers (in general) here expect all the benefits of the savings. Whether it is CL fees, ebay fees, or Paypal fees, why is it wrong for the sellers to get part of the benefits?
Sure, if I can sell an item on Ebay for $1000, roughly after Ebay and Paypal fees, I might only get $850 (give or take but you get the idea), so why is it wrong for me or someone else to ask $925? split the difference? If this is about fairness, then is it wrong to expect part of the "windfall" instead of the buyers get 100% of the windfall?
thankfully, I don't have much to sell or buy these days so I don't have to worry about offending anyone to boycott me but lets hear it.
Heck I am guilty too of low balling also so this is by no mean how I make offer each and every time but occasionally, I have made an offer like this
"GPA = $1000, so I will offer $950 because I think it is a win win for both of us"
how many of you would write something like this "GPA = $1000 so I will offer you $900 since that is what you get if you sell on CL"
is it offensive to me? no but that is the reality of what buyers expect and want around here.
Heck I can go on about GPA and the flaws there as well but that is a different debate.
It's the attitude from the people that buy only. They never see the other side. When I make a offer that's a little (or more than a little) below market value on a book I want I always offer a money order through the mail. It's like in person when trying to get a deal on a book, offer cash is the fairest way. "Will you take $200 for that?" "Cash money?" "Yes sir, cash money." "Sold!" Cash money always has and should grease the skids on a deal.
c) Now onto something even more difficult to debate. Why are the buyers (in general) here expect all the benefits of the savings. Whether it is CL fees, ebay fees, or Paypal fees, why is it wrong for the sellers to get part of the benefits?
Sure, if I can sell an item on Ebay for $1000, roughly after Ebay and Paypal fees, I might only get $850 (give or take but you get the idea), so why is it wrong for me or someone else to ask $925? split the difference? If this is about fairness, then is it wrong to expect part of the "windfall" instead of the buyers get 100% of the windfall?
You got a bit murky here, so I'm not sure I'm following. Are you asking why "all the benefits" of selling here vs. ebay should go to the buyer? If so, I don't think I follow. Take your example of a $1,000 comic. You're the seller, I'm the buyer. If you sell it on eBay, according to your post, I pay $1,000 and you get $850. If you sell it here, I pay $1,000 and you get $970 (I'm taking off 3% for paypal). In both scenarios, I'm paying the same amount, but in the second, you're getting a decent amount more. How does that suggest that buyers get all the benefits?
"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased." - Alexander Hamilton
_________________________
If you keep your collection in the closet, you can't enjoy it, you can't touch it, you can't share it" a line I heard from the show Collection Intervention.
"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased." - Alexander Hamilton
[quote=etanick] where did I say I get $970? I was suggesting $925
No, I said $970. I was taking 3% off the $1,000. I feel like I'm missing your boat... [/quote
uh...I am totally confused on the issue now.
I think the confusion is about the asking price.
If an item is $1000 per GPA, and the seller ask $1000 and willing to give 3% discount...then it is up to the buyer to want it or not right? you chose to not buy from this type of seller(s)?
My comment was to your general comment that if a seller offer 3% discount, you are not buying it as "discount" because the price is inflated already.
...so, unless I am misreading, if a buyer already discounting 10% or more per GPA, how then he can inflate anything or came across as "greedy"?
what am I missing here?
_________________________
If you keep your collection in the closet, you can't enjoy it, you can't touch it, you can't share it" a line I heard from the show Collection Intervention.
" so far I have refused to do so. For instance, there are some early Spideys for sale right now. I'd buy two if not all three of them if the seller would just handle his Paypal business better.
VIVA INFANTINO 
