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#1204821 - 05/16/06 01:22 AM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: esquirecomics]
Aces Offline

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Quote:

Let each individual decide for themself what he or she considers to be restoration or to what degree certain types of restoration effect the value of a comic.





I have no idea who said this, but is the first part a good idea?
I mean should each individual decide what "NM" is too?
The whole point of getting a comic professionally graded is to get a "universal standard" assigned to the book correct?

I should know better than to get into this with the BDSer's.
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#1204822 - 05/16/06 01:46 AM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: esquirecomics]
HeyMoe Offline
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Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Hey!? Isn't that CGC's own definition of restoration!
"Comic Book Restoration. Any attempt, amateur or professional, to enhance the appearance of a comic book."

(Just luv watching you guys go at it! Fun viewing for a humble collector from Down Under !)


Edited by HeyMoe (05/16/06 01:46 AM)
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#1204823 - 05/16/06 01:46 AM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: Aces]
shadroch Offline
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For myself,I don't consider a light Wonder Bread treatment to be any form of restoration.I also don't really care if pressing is called restoration,conservation,or Charlie,just as long as the person selling a pressed book discloses that fact.
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#1204824 - 05/16/06 02:05 AM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: HeyMoe]
scheradon Offline
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Registered: 11/02/05
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Loc: Back Home Finally!
Quote:

Hey!? Isn't that CGC's own definition of restoration!
"Comic Book Restoration. Any attempt, amateur or professional, to enhance the appearance of a comic book."

(Just luv watching you guys go at it! Fun viewing for a humble collector from Down Under !)




Correct! And for some reason they feel the need to include "Comic Book Restoration" in addition to just "Restoration" in their glossary:

"Comic Book Restoration. Any attempt, amateur or professional, to enhance the appearance of a comic book."

Here is the "Restoration" definition in CGC's glossary:

"Restoration. The repairing of a comic book so it will appear as it did when it was in its original condition."

Interestingly here is the definition just below it for a Rolled Spine and further down for Spine Roll:

"Rolled Spine. A defect caused to the spine of a comic book due to readers folding back pages."

"Spine Roll. A defect of a comic book caused by improper storage that results in uneven pages and the bowing of the spine."


These are conditions commonly fixed by pressing. Interesting that when reading these glossary definitions, one would logically assume that pressing this type of "defect" out would certainly be an act of repairing the book so that it "appears" as it did in it's original condition as well as an attempt to enhance the appearance of the book.


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#1204825 - 05/16/06 01:02 PM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: scheradon]
Jokerman Offline
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Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 736
Loc: The Ha-Hacienda outside Chicag...


Hoist on their own petard?



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#1204826 - 05/16/06 03:05 PM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: The Brain]
The_End_At_Last Offline
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Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 103
I think yours is the best, because it covers the case where someone attempts to enhance a comic book but makes a bad job of it and makes it worse. Now some people might think that to lower the book's grade can't be restoration. But lets take an example. A book initially grades at 8.0 but a careless slip drops it to just 5.0. Now suppose then a second attempt (lets say by somebody else) succeeds in raising it to 7.0. Now is that restoration ? It is still below the original 8.0 so some people might still stick to saying it hasn't raised the grade. But here's the rub: without knowing about the first botched job, all you can say is that the grade has been raised !

Clearly the use of the phrase 'intent to enhance' then covers all possibilities....I think !

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#1204827 - 05/16/06 03:25 PM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: nearmint]
mica Offline

mild mannered mica

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Registered: 04/07/05
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Quote:

As I said in the other thread, I slip comics into mylars to "enhance their appearance."


Ho Ho Ha that'll slap us into reality.
Nice try Jeff. Many things look good behind crystal clear glass; plastic; or Mylar.
And looking through a pair of binoculars make far away details seem clear and vibrant and enhances your perception.
But the binoculars didn't change the landscape (or hot babe) you were looking at. Once you put down your binoculars (or Mylar) the actual physical object (the book) hasn't been changed.

You're just playing games with words. Nicely done, but games none the less.
But I have always wondered why do we like things when viewed behind a shiny surface.
Even Fair condition and Coverless seems to instantly look better behind glass. Why is that? Now I'm thinking too hard.

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#1204828 - 05/16/06 04:12 PM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: mica]
nearmint Offline
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Registered: 07/16/02
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Loc: Jeff in Newport Beach, CA
Quote:

Quote:

As I said in the other thread, I slip comics into mylars to "enhance their appearance."




Ho Ho Ha that'll slap us into reality.
Nice try Jeff. Many things look good behind crystal clear glass; plastic; or Mylar.
And looking through a pair of binoculars make far away details seem clear and vibrant and enhances your perception.
But the binoculars didn't change the landscape (or hot babe) you were looking at. Once you put down your binoculars (or Mylar) the actual physical object (the book) hasn't been changed.

You're just playing games with words. Nicely done, but games none the less.
But I have always wondered why do we like things when viewed behind a shiny surface.
Even Fair condition and Coverless seems to instantly look better behind glass. Why is that? Now I'm thinking too hard.




Mica,
You illustrate my point perfectly. You say my mylar example doesn't work because the mylar in my example, or the binoculars in yours, doesn't change the actual physical object.
That's EXACTLY my problem with the definition Esquire has presented us with. It does not mention anything about changing or altering the physical object. Rather than "changing" or "altering", the definition uses the word "enhance". Further, the defintion does not call for the object to be enhanced, but merely the "appearance" of the object. The appearance of an object can be enhanced in many ways without any change to the object itself. For example, just about any object's appearance will be enhanced under good lighting rather than under harsh lighting. No change to the object itself, just an enhancement of its appearance.
So, my point was that the definition should clearly state some kind of change or alteration to the book itself, not merely its appearance.
So, no Mica, I was not playing games with words. I was making a legitimate point about what I think is lacking in the definition.
Jeff
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#1204829 - 05/16/06 04:20 PM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: nearmint]
mica Offline

mild mannered mica

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Registered: 04/07/05
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My comments were along the lines that I believed you knew what you were saying was splitting hairs. And I sort of complimented the ease in which you undertook it.

But deep down you knew the intent of the basic words used.
Deep down you KNEW what he meant.
In a sense you twisted them. Clever, but a twist.

So to make the wording better how about we add "to the physical book/or page with the intent to"
in front of the words "enhance their appearance"

Then that would remove your Mylar analogy. (Unless you glued it to the book or encased in such a way that it became attached or part of the book) Which could still be possible I suppose but the hair splitting at that point would be scalping.

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#1204830 - 05/16/06 04:23 PM Re: How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books? [Re: nearmint]
Timulty Offline
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Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 12360
Loc: Iola, KS
How about

Restoration = The process of modifying a book's current state with the intent of enhancing aesthetics.

Conservation = The process of modifying a book's current state with the intent of enhancing structural integrity.
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