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#1141077 - 04/02/06 10:00 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: binarysunrise]
FFB Offline

At long last I feel regular.

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Registered: 02/03/04
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Quote:

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Perhaps because the interior of the safe is solid plastic with no seams, the contents inside the safe were spared from the corrosive offgassing.




Um, isn't plastic (at least among conservation people) one of the worst things to store in due to the offgassing of the *plastic*? Though I guess some plastic/pvc is worse than others...(otherwise why would CGC encapulate comics in plastic....)




Mylar is a plastic. It isn't the plastic that is the problem. It is the plasticizers and other additives that are the problem.

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#1141078 - 04/03/06 07:55 AM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: FFB]
binarysunrise Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 2426
Just checking - thought that perhaps cheaper safes might not use inert plastic in the interior housing...
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#1141079 - 04/03/06 12:06 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: BronzeBruce13]
Burntboy Offline
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Registered: 12/22/03
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Bruce - i pulled out my Brochures from both Fort Knox and heritage safes and read through them carefully.

interesting to not e that both manufacturers offered a dehumidifier option. (which i did not take, BTW). both warned of the potential for moisture damage to guns and other valuables from humidity, but niether suggested that it was necessary. seems to me that they were thinking of environmental sources of excess humidity like one might expect in louisiana or elsewhere..............

also of interest is a "Corrosion Control" option offered by Ft Knox. it touts the possible need for protection from corrosion to metals when stored in a non-ventilated environment.

being from NJ and having a fireproof safe (both like yourself) has certainly rasied some red flags with me. however, i've sold over 120 CGC books that were stored in this safe for almost 4 years and none have shown any signs of rusting staples.

quite frankly, i'm still flabbergasred over the condition of that Hulk 182 - it just doesn't seem possible to have decayed so quickly inside a safe. unless, of course, there is some weight to the theory that of the type of fireproofing material caused the damage.

in any event, will follow your exploits with interest..............
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#1141080 - 04/03/06 12:11 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: Arty]
Silver Surfer Offline

Man this is just a reminder of how much work I haven't done in the last 8 years!

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Registered: 03/12/04
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Top Staple... this is very painful to observe










Quite incredible. That staple is worse than any staple I have ever seen before. Looks like it has been in a salt bath for years. No way this was caused only by humidity.

You should buy two hygrometers and test outside and inside humidity of the safe simultaneously. Put a couple of iron items inside safe to see what happens. Maybe a small plate abraded with a sand paper to maximize surface area.

And finally, this is very important: If there is metal left under that crust, do not get those staples replaced. Cleaned: yes, but not replaced. e




Good grief I don't think I have ever seen staples that bad before. I was going to buy a simple metal file cabinet but now I am wondering if I should.

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#1141081 - 04/03/06 12:32 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: Silver Surfer]
Mr. Zipper Offline

If every thread and post that was self-referential to Board protocol, politics, history and/or monkey-business disappeared, how many would be left?
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Good grief I don't think I have ever seen staples that bad before. I was going to buy a simple metal file cabinet but now I am wondering if I should.




This whole affair has me wondering if a heavy cedar chest with a good lock might be a much better option for more expensive books.

Granted, you lose the fire protection, but most of the safes are only good for 30-60 minutes in a fire. A serious fire would end up cooking the safe and its contents anyway.


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#1141082 - 04/03/06 02:13 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: Silver Surfer]
moneymaker Offline
Learning the Ropes


Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 28
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Top Staple... this is very painful to observe










Quite incredible. That staple is worse than any staple I have ever seen before. Looks like it has been in a salt bath for years. No way this was caused only by humidity.

You should buy two hygrometers and test outside and inside humidity of the safe simultaneously. Put a couple of iron items inside safe to see what happens. Maybe a small plate abraded with a sand paper to maximize surface area.

And finally, this is very important: If there is metal left under that crust, do not get those staples replaced. Cleaned: yes, but not replaced. e




Good grief I don't think I have ever seen staples that bad before. I was going to buy a simple metal file cabinet but now I am wondering if I should.




My greatest feelings of empathy go out to Bruce. I have two safes with hundreds of CGC encased items. It would be an understatement to say that it caused me great alarm when I saw this thread.

I have two different safes. One, an older, Liberty gun safe, which I have owned for over 5 years. The second I bought via Costco online, was a Sentry GX8599.

I didn't bother to get too worked up over the Liberty safe as I constantly see inventory going in and out and have never seen a problem. I did however get very concerned with the Sentry safe. I was especially concerned when I viewed the logo, which shows a fire being put at bay, assuming mine was a fire proof/resistant safe.

I called Sentry and was told that the safe I have is a "gun safe". They stated that it is not fire proof or even particularly fire resistant. They reminded me that it had two holes in the back that were used to wire up an optional dehumidifier that also came with the safe (that I had forgotten about). As such, the safe is nowhere close to "airtight". The rep noted that gun owners could not possibly live with a safe that might possibly rust their firearms..

I noted that I had read about this particular topic over the weekend and the gal, not even knowing about what I was talking about, guessed (correctly) that it might have been the model 3810.

She noted that this is a "fire proof/resistant" safe. They do not use any particular chemicals, however it is concrete lined and virtually airtight, which the rep noted could easily "create" humidity within the safe. She suggested that if somebody had such a safe, that they should use zip lock or other airtight enclosures to keep out the moisture that might form.

For standard gun safes, which are not airtight, the rep noted that humidity within the safe should be no worse than humidity outside the safe. Thus a dehumidifier might be useful, but not due to the inherent risk within the safe, but the inherent risk of the immediate surrounding environment, which would affect comics in or out of the safe equally.

I hope this helps. It sounds like fire proof safes are indeed a direct contributor to the problems being experienced by Bruce and others, potentially.

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#1141083 - 04/03/06 02:25 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: moneymaker]
Mr. Zipper Offline

If every thread and post that was self-referential to Board protocol, politics, history and/or monkey-business disappeared, how many would be left?
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From the Sentry website: [bold emphasis is mine]

#######

Q: Why is there moisture in my fire resistant safe?

Sentry Fire-Safe products which offer fire protection have a patented insulation. Any fire resistant safe contains insulation, which in turn, contains water crystals; thus the high content of moisture. In addition, the Sentry advanced safes close airtight to offer water resistance, which may also cause moisture to accumulate inside your safe.

We suggest that you open the safe at least once every two weeks for approximately 20 minutes. To alleviate any musty odor, we suggest that you remove the items from the safe and wipe the interior with a paste of baking soda and water.
_________________________


Steve Zarelli Space Authentication

My blog: The Collecting Obsession

Want List:
* Action Comics -- 31, 44, 48, 58, 59, 63, 66, 90 (4.0 - 7.0 range)

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#1141084 - 04/03/06 05:58 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: Mr. Zipper]
awe4one Offline
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Registered: 07/26/02
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We suggest that you open the safe at least once every two weeks for approximately 20 minutes. To alleviate any musty odor, we suggest that you remove the items from the safe and wipe the interior with a paste of baking soda and water.




That's too much trouble...I'd just buy another brand without the hassle...

Jim
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#1141085 - 04/03/06 09:55 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: awe4one]
drdonaldblake Offline
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 1829
what about metal filing cabinets?????????????????

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#1141086 - 04/03/06 11:07 PM Re: Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safe [Re: Mr. Zipper]
selegue Offline
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Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 8476
Loc: Stone Age
Quote:

From the Sentry website: [bold emphasis is mine]

#######

Q: Why is there moisture in my fire resistant safe?

Sentry Fire-Safe products which offer fire protection have a patented insulation. Any fire resistant safe contains insulation, which in turn, contains water crystals; thus the high content of moisture. In addition, the Sentry advanced safes close airtight to offer water resistance, which may also cause moisture to accumulate inside your safe.

We suggest that you open the safe at least once every two weeks for approximately 20 minutes. To alleviate any musty odor, we suggest that you remove the items from the safe and wipe the interior with a paste of baking soda and water.




OK -- I still don't have a clue what they mean by "water crystals" (where I'm from, that's called "ice") but clearly Steve was quoting accurately.
If the humidity can get so high that you have to air the safe for 20 min every 2 weeks and swab out the mold with baking soda and water, there's no need to call out corrosive chemicals. The Hulk 182 apparently had the most moisture trapped in the slab and/or the staples were the most susceptible to rust. Does the wire used for saddle-stitching have a coating (or did it in 1974)? Was there a chance that the staples were buffed, removing the coating, at some point? Were the other books about the same age and also Marvels?

Jack
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